Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Discussion about Knightmare in youtube's Geek Week.
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Re: Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by wombstar » Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:33 pm

The Geek Week episode didn't offer any changes or a new format, it was pretty much the same, so how on earth can they claim the fans wont accept change when nothing new was offered?

But if the format changes too much then it's Knightmare in name only, they may as well make a whole new show. It's alright theses networks saying they want to do this and that but it's no good if their audience doesn't want to watch it. (make what people want to watch, seems like common sense)

However, Nobody is saying the show shouldn't change, we don't know what changes they wish to make, plus the GW ep was made to special requirements. Yes the ONE change that was made did receive negative feedback but that was regarding the individuals not the change itself, the idea of using adults has always been a positive as far as I know. The VR pilot tried to change the DNA of the show and look how that turned out.

I get the impression the networks want a celebrity based show, and it was the celebrity aspect of the pilot we didn't like.
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Re: Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by Mystara » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:36 am

wombstar wrote:The Geek Week episode didn't offer any changes or a new format, it was pretty much the same,
It did offer changes.
They had adult contestants
They had celebrity contestants

As compared to any single series they were also minor changes in, for example, aesthetics (e.g. The use of the eye shield, the lack of reach wand, old style dungeons, etc).
so how on earth can they claim the fans wont accept change when nothing new was offered?
They haven't claimed that. I speculated it based on a small number of facts and some grapevines.

But if the format changes too much then it's Knightmare in name only, they may as well make a whole new show.
To some extent yes. But I suspect an attraction of "Knightmare" is the free fan base. It's as I said earlier. We can be a huge benefit or a curse. If we like what the networks make then we are a free, automatic, enormous fan base and we will guarantee the success of the show. If we don't like what we see, we will destroy the show through simple unwavering negativity.

Virtually impossible was an excellent example of this. Viewed in isolation, it's a good show. It was never intended to be compared or viewed as a replacement for Knightmare. But people did interpret it as a replacement for Knightmare and that destroyed it (the loss of virtually impossible actually seems to have sealed Knightmare's fate in turn, but that's another story)
It's alright theses networks saying they want to do this and that but it's no good if their audience doesn't want to watch it. (make what people want to watch, seems like common sense)
Well yes, but that's not the alternative.
The alternative is programme X which they like the format of, which they want to make, that they think people will be popular, and which minimises their risk.
However, Nobody is saying the show shouldn't change, we don't know what changes they wish to make, plus the GW ep was made to special requirements.
I strongly suspect, and this is speculation again, that doesn't matter on both counts.

The basis of any pitch to a network would be the pilot. You can tell the networks what you might change from the pilot but I think it's the pilot that will have the biggest effect.

As I have already mentioned, the networks are looking for a reason to say 'no'. So I suspect the network will do the quickest of reports to see what fans thought of the pilot.

Even if the report is as accurate as "people generally liked it but didn't like the contestants", I see it as unlikely that the network will go to the effort of working out the significance of that. Why bother when there will be 10 cheaper, quicker to make, readily repeatable shows, all with feedback of "entirely positive" with which to fill your 3 slots?
Yes the ONE change that was made did receive negative feedback but that was regarding the individuals not the change itself, the idea of using adults has always been a positive as far as I know.
It's not that simple though. If I was a programme maker, I would want to know why the contestants were so unpopular with the fans, what that means about the fans and what the effect of making a change to that feature would be.

OR, I could commission a different show which has no such problem

[/quote]
I get the impression the networks want a celebrity based show, and it was the celebrity aspect of the pilot we didn't like.[/quote]

And that is exactly what I mean by inflexible.
A celebrity based show would have virtually no effect except perhaps slightly more confident and less bothered contestants. As a programme commissioner, I would never commission Knightmare if that was the general attitude of the fan base. Again, why bother when there will be 10 other shows around where I don't have to take the risk that a tiny change will cause the fan base to turn against the show?
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Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by Mystara » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:36 am

wombstar wrote:The Geek Week episode didn't offer any changes or a new format, it was pretty much the same,
It did offer changes.
They had adult contestants
They had celebrity contestants

As compared to any single series they were also minor changes in, for example, aesthetics (e.g. The use of the eye shield, the lack of reach wand, old style dungeons, etc).
so how on earth can they claim the fans wont accept change when nothing new was offered?
They haven't claimed that. I speculated it based on a small number of facts and some grapevines.

But if the format changes too much then it's Knightmare in name only, they may as well make a whole new show.
To some extent yes. But I suspect an attraction of "Knightmare" is the free fan base. It's as I said earlier. We can be a huge benefit or a curse. If we like what the networks make then we are a free, automatic, enormous fan base and we will guarantee the success of the show. If we don't like what we see, we will destroy the show through simple unwavering negativity.

Virtually impossible was an excellent example of this. Viewed in isolation, it's a good show. It was never intended to be compared or viewed as a replacement for Knightmare. But people did interpret it as a replacement for Knightmare and that destroyed it (the loss of virtually impossible actually seems to have sealed Knightmare's fate in turn, but that's another story)
It's alright theses networks saying they want to do this and that but it's no good if their audience doesn't want to watch it. (make what people want to watch, seems like common sense)
Well yes, but that's not the alternative.
The alternative is programme X which they like the format of, which they want to make, that they think people will be popular, and which minimises their risk.
However, Nobody is saying the show shouldn't change, we don't know what changes they wish to make, plus the GW ep was made to special requirements.
I strongly suspect, and this is speculation again, that doesn't matter on both counts.

The basis of any pitch to a network would be the pilot. You can tell the networks what you might change from the pilot but I think it's the pilot that will have the biggest effect.

As I have already mentioned, the networks are looking for a reason to say 'no'. So I suspect the network will do the quickest of reports to see what fans thought of the pilot.

Even if the report is as accurate as "people generally liked it but didn't like the contestants", I see it as unlikely that the network will go to the effort of working out the significance of that. Why bother when there will be 10 cheaper, quicker to make, readily repeatable shows, all with feedback of "entirely positive" with which to fill your 3 slots?
Yes the ONE change that was made did receive negative feedback but that was regarding the individuals not the change itself, the idea of using adults has always been a positive as far as I know.
It's not that simple though. If I was a programme commissioner I I would want to know why the contestants were so unpopular with the fans, what that means about the fans and what the effect of making a change to that feature would be.

OR, I could commission a different show which has no such problem
I get the impression the networks want a celebrity based show, and it was the celebrity aspect of the pilot we didn't like.
And that is exactly what I mean by inflexible.
A celebrity based show would have virtually no effect except perhaps slightly more confident and less bothered contestants. As a programme commissioner, I would never commission Knightmare if that was the general attitude of the fan base. Again, why bother when there will be 10 other shows around where I don't have to take the risk that a tiny change will cause the fan base to turn against the show?
Alan Boyd
Website: http://www.twicetwice.co.uk/

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Re: Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by Pooka » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:29 pm

Well said, sir.
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Re: Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by pjmlfc05 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:56 pm

Mystara wrote:And that is exactly what I mean by inflexible.
A celebrity based show would have virtually no effect except perhaps slightly more confident and less bothered contestants.
And this is what would really annoy me if this was the case. I haven't got anything against celebrity contestants. But the last thing I would want to see is them doing it for exposure purposes. Having celebrity contestants doesn't make a show better either.

I don't see why the format would have to change. Look at Catchphrase. Since it was brought back it's done well. There was no radical changes there.

If the only way forward is by having celebrities then so be it but I believe the quality would suffer as a result. As Tim Child said, the kids were the stars.
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Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by Mystara » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:06 pm

The format would have to change because the networks will not even consider the old format. It's not considered viable.

If you don't want Knightmare with celebrities, by all means make it clear. Just be aware that this isn't a process where everyone will keep trying until some middle ground is reached.
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Re: Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by pjmlfc05 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:23 pm

It's just my opinion. Also you touched on something which I wanted to comment on. (A celebrity based show would have virtually no effect except perhaps slightly more confident and less bothered contestants)

If I had a choice of celebrity contestants or not, I'd rather go without due to the above which you said.
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Re: Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by Mashibinbin » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:45 pm

Lots of fun and a most worthy dvd extra if that dream ever became reality!

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Re: Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by wombstar » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:40 pm

Time Busters would make a interesting 'remake' i suppose.

I don't see what this attraction or need to make it with 'celebrities' comes from, i guess celeb based game shows are all the rage right now so i might be best for Km to sit tight a bit longer until that's blown over.

But it sounds like they have no interests in making Knightmare regardless of how popular the show still is, (possibly too expensive?) A new format doesn't mean it will be successful (more risky id say) By all means update it.


But he world doesn't seem ready for such it's return, might have to wait a bit longer for it to fall into the right hands, someone who knows what it is and what made it a hit in the first place, than someone wanting to turn it into another celebrity joke shop (the live shows fill's that role nicely) i guess the time isn't right for a show like KM Maybe we're the only ones who wants to see it return anyway? B-|

Revived Doctor who is an example of a show that was updated but kept the same format/DNA and it's brilliant and successful.
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Re: Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by stockholmsyndrome » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:30 pm

Yep the extended version works much better, like the wall monster (some colour in the eyes would of been good) and the causeway room. A floating head Dave Cameron/Ed Milliband/Kim Kardisian ;) or just traditional skull would of been good.

The opening scene, there were some good ideas there, the revive spell, Isy being stiched up into an internship to 'clean up dungeon', but its execution is woodern and awkward. Written at the last hour + original art work for antechamber couldn't be used, so can't be too hard there. Maybe cutting to Treguard snoring, and a quicker start into the game would of worked.

Having you Tubers was important to generate interest, and they seemed to be respectful. Still a victory, on the whole thought it was very good.

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Re: Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by stockholmsyndrome » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:10 pm

Its the opening camera angle, graphics and dialogue which doesn't work for me, up until around 2.15 which works much better from there. Would cut that out all together. From there the way it flicks between the Team and Treguard and Isy in close up works well. Isy squeezing past the bench again little awkward and think that just needed to be a bit more punchy and straight into game.

Slightly weak start but again I think the rest is great

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Re: Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by wombstar » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:26 pm

It's a pity they died off so soon, that room looks really difficult and was a bit cruel, but maybe it was designed to kill them off so it could be edited into a 30 minute episode?

Id like to have seen it end half way thought the quest and then the extended version could show the full quest, but of course it all down to the team but it was a nasty room to get.
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Re: Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by Mystara » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:51 am

wombstar wrote:It's a pity they died off so soon, that room looks really difficult and was a bit cruel, but maybe it was designed to kill them off so it could be edited into a 30 minute episode?
It wasn't.
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Re: Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by Skarkill » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:20 pm

So great to see this version again.

I definitely feel it flows better then the edited Geek Week version, though I enjoyed that version as well and the shortening of the opening scene lends to the episode flowing better most certainly.


I liked seeing more of Theodora Snitch in her scene and also the extended 2nd Spyglass scene with Lord Fear & Lissard. (Loved the Broadsword reference also.)


The floor puzzle was a nice little addition and nicely challenging. The Gargoyle/Blocker/Wall Monster (Delete as appropriate) was also a fun extra. The Slice Me Dice Me puzzle is still my fave innovation for KMVR and glad it was brought into this. (Also nice to have Garstang mentioned)


Sylvester The Jester still leaves me a little 'Meh' as a character but he has potential and Daisy (Though scripted) I find rather endearing and wouldn't mind seeing her in the assistants role again.


All in all though its a nice little episode and very enjoyable.

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Re: Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode

Post by Drassil » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:11 pm

If I could have made one editing change in the extended version, it would have been to put in the traditional goblin horn sound in place of that alpine horn.

It's hard to know whether Dan was nervous, overexcited, performing or just being himself. But it's worth noting that during the second showing of the extended episode at the convention (I wasn't in the room for the first), Dan got plenty of laughs from the audience.

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