Series 4

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JamesA
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Series 4

Post by JamesA » Sun Dec 08, 2002 10:00 pm

It's that time of the week again, when I ask people for their opinions on a certain series  ;D

I was reviewing my tape today, and there was a fair bit of Series 4 that I liked.

*Mainly of note Team 6's winning quest starrting (cough!) "Thingyon"  :D

*The first team of the series going as far as they did, considering the the first teams in the previous series had all met their end in Level 1, I thought they did extremely well

*Team 8 - very unlucky not being able to complete their quest as I'm sure they would have

*Goofy Gundwada - absolutely brilliant  ;D, so why only a one season wonder?

*The use of an outdoor environment for the first time, something I thought worked quite well to a certain extent

*Ariadne's lair - pretty good stuff

*The introduction of the Corridor of Blades!  8)

And of course - not forgetting:

*The Block and Tackle - such an effective team killer, and I'm sure everyone remembers Team 4's little jaunt there, not that I need to repeat it of course. Ho Ho!  ;)

Cheers  ;D
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Re: Series 4

Post by Pooka » Sun Dec 08, 2002 10:14 pm

If you say so...

Dickon's quest was very, very good, but not as accomplished as some later teams, in my humble opinion anyway. (I'm thinking Ben from Series 6 mainly here... *cough*) However, it was interesting to watch them. They worked together very well and it was all good fun. No real complaints there.

I think the main problem in Series 4 was with the characters. There were some good new characters (Gundrada for example being a good one, and do I need to mention Pickle?), however, look what happened to Merlin!
Where was the great wizard who delivered King Arthur to Camelot? What happened to the mighty, all-powerful sorcerer? He was stuck in the stocks ALL THE FREAKING TIME!

The outdoor element... hmmm. Good idea - bad execution. I didn't like the purple tint to the scenes that was added. I liked the forest though - it could have looked better, but it was a good idea at the time.

I could go on for ages, but I'm just going to say - good series, well at least it could have been, but it was spoiled by over-use of repeated ideas and stuff. As Paul McIntosh so often said - a period of transition, that shouldn't really have existed.
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Re: Series 4

Post by GrimaldineGrimwold » Sun Dec 08, 2002 10:34 pm

I think the main problem in Series 4 was with the characters. There were some good new characters (Gundrada for example being a good one, and do I need to mention Pickle?), however, look what happened to Merlin!
Where was the great wizard who delivered King Arthur to Camelot? What happened to the mighty, all-powerful sorcerer? He was stuck in the stocks ALL THE FREAKING TIME!
Perhaps they felt they'd done as much as they could with Merlin? Hence then getting rid of him after this Series. But, I agree, there is a problem with the characters. Or, in my view, not so much with the characters themselves but the storylines surrounding some of them. They're lazy. The stocks thing is just laughable by the end of the series.

It's fine to keep things simple. That's one of the things I loved about series 3. But if you can't come up with a better way to get the dungeoneer involved with a character than "they're stuck in the stocks" after using it several times already in the season, something's a little amiss.
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Re: Series 4

Post by JamesA » Sun Dec 08, 2002 10:37 pm

I possibly think that Merlin was being fazed out to be replaced by Hordriss in a way - though he kept ending up in all sorts of trouble later on  ;D
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Re: Series 4

Post by GrimaldineGrimwold » Sun Dec 08, 2002 10:42 pm

I possibly think that Merlin was being fazed out to be replaced by Hordriss in a way - though he kept ending up in all sorts of trouble later on  ;D
Do you mean Hordriss ending up in trouble later on? Raaaaaaa! I must think of some ranting material for the week we discuss Series 7. ;D
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Re: Series 4

Post by GrimaldineGrimwold » Sun Dec 08, 2002 10:59 pm

I can think of loads of pros for Series 4. Several cons, too. But when I try balancing them all up to work out what I should think of the Series, I get confused. I don't really know what to make of it as a whole.

Anyway, as to what I liked:

- The new status bar thing. I much preferred that to what came after. Not too intrusive, just a helpful reminder occasionally.
- Ariadne's lair. The best of the bunch, in my view.
- The Corridor of Blades. Just a wonderful vision. It says a lot for the design that it remained just about unchanged until the end of the original run. I'd love to see something like it in any new series.
- The Block and Tackle, though I'll post my comments on it separately.
- Some of the "real" environments introduced. Some of the forest scenes are well done, and I love the level 3 clue room.
- Pickle, to a degree. He gets better as the series go on, in my view. I don't really ever get into the debate about "Treguard on his own/With Pickle/With Majida" too much. I think each had their good points.

I'll have to think more about what I didn't like.  
 
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Re: Series 4

Post by GrimaldineGrimwold » Sun Dec 08, 2002 11:17 pm

Oh, I forgot Gundrada. I much preferred her to the various swordmistresses, greenwardens and suchlike from later series. Yes, it was odd she didn't make a reappearance.  
"Sometimes of the Grey, but always of the Green, dearie. Shurrup Brollachan! Have you seen Festus, my dear? I need to take him back to Cornwall. " [cackle]

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Re: Series 4

Post by Debz_g » Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:18 pm

I absolutely love series 4 and I don't think I can possibly find fault with it!
Firstly the introduction of one of my favourite characters, yes its Pickle!!  ;D Not just an assistant but down to earth enough so that he could really be your mate!
The purple looking rooms, purple is my favourite colour so I guess I am biased!
Although some people say this was a bad thing, I rather liked the inclusion of outdoor scenes. I think it made the dungeon seem more realistic and even more frightening.
Gundrada- How cool was she?! :)
Michael Cule- I think Brother Mace and Fatilla are brilliant characters!
Blades-Ooh Nasty!
The Transporter Puzzle- Absolute genius, great idea, great backgrounds...wow!
Oh and a special mention for the re-use of the Spindizzy! Watching the dungeoneers stumble on an off it was hilarious although perhaps a little mean to have such a hard task so early on! ;D
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Re: Series 4

Post by Malefact » Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:05 pm

I agree that series 4 has a very good winning team. That scream from Malice when socked by the FIRE spell is a classic!

I too think the last team should have won - they definitely would have given the time. They seemed the most enthusiastic team of the lot. It's a shame.
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Re: Series 4

Post by GrimaldineGrimwold » Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:16 pm

The odd shape of Series 4 is something I'd like to mention. I can't really define what I mean. I'll illustrate it instead:

1. There are only 8 teams compared to 13 and 12 in the last two Series of similar length.
2. Unlike previous Series, no teams die in Level 1.
3. Instead of gradually revealing the dungeon with later teams slowly getting further than their predecessors at the start of the series, we have two teams at the start who get a long way followed by several who stumble in Level 2.
4. Of the 6 teams who die, 3 fall to the same obstable, albeit for one, Team 5, missing out on magic was their real downfall.

This is just a personal thing, but I'd prefer a more "classic" series shape. I like to see one or a few teams die on Level 1, to prove that even the first level is dangerous. A good floor puzzle or something on Level 1 would be my choice to weed out the teams who really struggle with directions. It also allows more teams to attempt the dungeon, hopefully including some truly good ones. I'd also like to see the first team killed off more quickly: perhaps put one of the weaker teams in that position. Obviously you can't determine how far they go (and Team 1 this series deserved to go as far as they did, in my opinion) but I'm talking about an ideal world. ;) After the first few teams, I want to be thinking "How is anyone ever going to beat this dungeon?". Then teams gradually get further, with perhaps a close call in the middle of the series, then finally someone manages the seemingly impossible.

The Block and Tackle. Hmm. It really is a great obstacle. Move and you're probably dead. Stay where you are and you're pretty much dead too. Of all the puzzles in Knightmare, this is the one I'd have least liked to face as a kid. At least with the Corridor of Blades either left wall or right wall is safe, so long as you can get there quickly enough. At the time, the B&T just confused me totally as to how you were supposed to get through it. I do therefore wonder why it's in Level 2 for most of the series. I'd guess on difficulty value it belongs in Level 3 as much as any Level 3 obstacle. But here's the problem, I guess. If the B&T is moved there, a lot more teams stumble into Level 3 without having actually faced that much peril. We'd be down to just handful of teams, just about all of whom would reach Level 3. So perhaps it had to be there to balance the easyish Level 1. Or perhaps there's another reason.

In any case, that's just my very long-winded opinion. :)
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Re: Series 4

Post by Debz_g » Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:22 pm

The scream is fab and I think Thingyon's team was excellent. In my opinion they were one of, if not the best winning teams.
I agree that the last team should have won, considering there were a couple of teams in series 4 that were so bad they weren't worth the screentime, its a shame that they couldn't have been given more time and they would have completed their quest. I think my favourite moment of their quest was when they met Brother Mace.
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Re: Series 4

Post by Malefact » Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:48 pm

Oh, yeah! "I've lost the joker!" Look at him and you'll see him glance in the direction of the film crew.

Also, in Dickon's quest, he almost cracked up ("50-year old Etruscan brandy always goes green"). Pickle certainly did! Classic stuff.
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Re: Series 4

Post by Debz_g » Mon Dec 09, 2002 4:32 pm

Heh heh yeah! A brilliant cock-up! (Oh wow, just noticed C.o.c.k doesn't work on here...another example of the wonderful world of thingy! ;D )
Something else on the point of the Corridor of Blades, I love to watch Hugo's and David's faces whilst a dungeoneer is trying to get through it! They get so involved in it, its fantastic!! Come to think of it they look summat like this ---------> :o
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Re: Series 4

Post by JamesA » Mon Dec 09, 2002 5:39 pm

btw, Fatilla was played by Erin Geraghty and NOT Michael Cule
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Re: Series 4

Post by Debz_g » Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:07 pm

Actually, thats a mistake on the site which Nic already knows about. It WAS Michael Cule who played Fatilla as he told me so when I interviewed him. I didn't know that either, until he explained who he actually played on KM and did the voice. Hopefully at some point you will see bits of the interview on here.  :)
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