Series 2 - Episode 10

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Re:Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by Purgatory » Fri Jul 02, 2004 7:51 pm

two doors they didn't take,
My life is an endless purgatory interruped by profound moments of misery

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Re:Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by dontyoulikemypie » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:34 am

I remember aged 8 or 9 I was genuinely scared by their death in that room. The idea of continually returning to the same room as lifeforce drained really shook me up!
And yeah, great turn from Mogdred there!

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Re: Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by HStorm » Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:36 am

Oh. the disingenuous concern!! "Oooooooooh nasty! A new threat guards the Great Corridor of the Catacomb! Careful, team! We don't want Stuart mashed, do we? Heh heh heh heh..." Wow, Treguard really was a nasty b*stard in the first couple of years wasn't he?

"So, we meet at last, Stuart!"
"I am Mogdred the all-powerful!"
"Thwart me, and I cr-r-r-r-r-r-r-rush you into a particle of dust!"
"Forget them, Stuart! They cannot help you against the dark magic I command!" etc.

Strewth, did Mogdred ever come up with a line that wasn't a comic-book bad guy cliche? Even Mumm-Ra's dialogue in Thundercats had more colour in it. And yet, on a dark evening, with the lights out and the volume turned up, John Woodnutt's performances have so much unashamed gusto that they're still irresistable. It's a bit like watching Japanese episodes of The Transformers; if you can just switch off the bit of your brain that feeds on clever wordplay, you can even find Mogdred strangely entertaining.

"Those who arm themselves with the weapons of their enemies are ever likely to fail." Treguard's closing remarks at the end of Stuart's quest possibly refer to two choices the team made, not just one. Explicitly, they're a reference to the dagger they took from the Level Two Clue Room (yet again, your dungeoneer can't see to fight, so why bother with an offensive weapon when you've been given no clue that you should take it?) but implicitly it may also be a reference to the 'deal-with-the-devil' they struck. Even had the team found a way past the Dungeon Roundabout, they were almost certainly going to lose anyway, especially if they cast the spell Mogdred gave them. It's quite obvious that making a deal with Mogdred defeats the whole object of the game - if it's a quest for truth and justice, why do a deal with some tyrannical megalomaniac who, far from championing truth, appears determined to silence anyone who might give the dungeoneer advice contrary to his own e.g Treguard.

It's interesting to speculate why exactly Mogdred offers deals to dungeoneers, and what effect the spell would have. It could be that if POWER is cast, Mogdred might feed off the power unleashed, although what's not clear is why he never casts it himself. Maybe he can't for some reason, and so he's trying to trick others into casting it for him? Or maybe it's a trap, and the effects of the spell are the opposite of what the name suggests?

Next, Jamie's team. As the Clue Room and various scenes in the next episode demonstrate, they need far too much prompting from Treguard to have any serious hope of winning. Even so, their eventual defeat is strikingly noble and unlucky.

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Re: Re:Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by Aldarion » Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:29 pm

Billy wrote:Tom41, it's the 6-8 logo, not the 5-8 logo ;)

A great moment today where Mogdred was disguised as Cedric- bet no one sar that coming! And the animation of the pendulum room was great, although it's difficult to see how they would have handled it if a dungeoneer had charged right in front of it. Possibly a life force damage. It was silly of them to take that 'silly dagger', as weapons are usually avoided. As for the death, well, I imagine they COULD have got through it by sheer guesswork, just they took the wrong door, and from then on any door they took returned them to the same room. At least they didn't use the POWER spell, though, as dark magic is never to be trusted!
Pity they didn't use that line from the book when they took the silly dagger. "What you gonna do with that, embroidery?"
The bees freaked me out as an 11 year old though.

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Re: Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by Canadanne » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:09 pm

Am quite bemused by the fact Treguard can't tell whether Igneous is male or female. I guess you can never be too sure with monsters, but he genuinely seems to have no idea one way or the other.

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Re: Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by JamesA » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:53 am

Does anyone else hear a watch beeping at 2:30? I'm guessing one member of the team forgot to remember that it wil was still active....

And continuing on with the "forgetting to remember" theme, I quite agree that the team didn't recall that they should never take the weapons of their enemies, unless advised to do so. As a result, it produces what I think is undoubtedly one of the most unusual deaths in Knightmare - Treguard tells them at the beginning of the room that they're already screwed, but when Stuart is guided through one of the doors, it looks like he's leaving fairly normally until he re-emerages at a different exit in the same room! This process carries on until the team's life force runs out.... No other death quite like it.
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Re: Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by Canadanne » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:35 pm

JamesA wrote:Does anyone else hear a watch beeping at 2:30?
Yes - you can also hear it beep near the end of Lillith's rant in the previous episode!

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Re: Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by Mystara » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:24 pm

Do we know for a fact that the "weapons of your enemies" rule was there from the beginning?

I know that the adventurer's code changed over time. I'm curious as to whether that particular statement was always present. Or, indeed, if the adventurer's code was always present.
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Re: Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by Canadanne » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:03 pm

Mystara wrote:Do we know for a fact that the "weapons of your enemies" rule was there from the beginning?

I know that the adventurer's code changed over time. I'm curious as to whether that particular statement was always present. Or, indeed, if the adventurer's code was always present.
Yup, it was there from the start. Treguard made the same pre-quest speech throughout Series 1: "You will have read the rules of ritual and the Adventurer's Code..." "Choose cautiously, and use the magic or the weapons of your enemies with care."

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Re: Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by Mystara » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:28 pm

hm, clearly I need to re-watch series 1. I don't recall him mentioning the weapons of your enemies.

However, it's worth noting that the rules of ritual weren't present in series 8.
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Re: Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by Pooka » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:44 pm

The first Knightmare book, Knightmare: Can You Beat The Challenge?, states thus:
Beware the weapons of your enemies. Unless there are other indications, it is best to assume that all the weapons you discover fall into this category.
So it's certainly in the Code, as far as the books are concerned. However, CYBTC? came out immediately following series 2, so there's no indication as to whether the Code is lifted from the programme or not, but since none of the Code is specific to playing an adventure gamebook (and if DM had written it speficially for the gamebooks I imagine it would have had some such instructions), I'm guessing it was an adaptation of whatever Code they were using in the programme at the time.
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Re: Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by wombstar » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:13 pm

Silly team taking the danger, I wanted to see what Mogdred power spell was all about, guess we'll never know. But im surprised they didn't try it when trying to escape that room. 2nd death from starving. And the first time I think Modgred was seen in the flesh if you know what I mean.


Bit disappointed in the next team getting a really big clue with the Noah riddle, also surprised they went for the food in the bomb room "you're in a bomb" as one says. They're not very speedy that's for sure.
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Re: Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by HobGoblin » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:19 pm

A non death-related 'ooh nasty' - how many of those were there?

I love that death - really simple but strangely disturbing. I do, however, have a slight problem with the fact that they were very probably in losing status and that it was impossible for them to guess their way out. The part of me concerned with gameplay does feel that this is cheating slightly. Makes good TV though...
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Re: Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by pjmlfc05 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:22 pm

The team made a schoolboy error by taking the dagger. The death was a bit boring though. They were doing ok before then. I did like the scene with Mogdread but it was only meant to hinder the team by giving them the POWER spell. I guess if they tried to use it, Treguard would have intervened.
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Re: Series 2 - Episode 10

Post by wombstar » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:31 pm

I thought it was a logical and justified death, it had already been set up rather than the producers throwing in a bomb room or a character wanting an item the team hadn't picked up, this room would have always been in the game I think so it was a cool death. Not boring at all, painful certainly. Treguard seemed to enjoy it.

They only tried two doors, and Treguard wouldn't let them use the door they came in (probs because they didn't want to have to keep re-starting the room maybe) but it could suggest it's an identical but different room... a maze, so finding the correct door by luck or guess would should be unlikely.
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