Concerning Treguard

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PookasRule
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Concerning Treguard

Post by PookasRule » Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:40 pm

Just some things I've often wondered about everyone's favourite dungeon master - the one who all the girls wish they could marry and all the boys wish they could be like: ( ;D ;D ;D)

1. Is "Treguard" Treguard's christian name or his surname? Is this mentioned at all in the books?

2. I have heard many say that during Series 1-3 Treguard was supposed to be completely neutral and did not align himself with either the dungeon or the dungeoneers and he did not become a complete ally until Series 4. I disagree with this. In fact, Treguard proves that his heart is indeed with the dungeoneers from the word go - giving advice and cautions regarding the various rooms and even explicitly offering solutions occasionally (LETTTTTERRRR OOOOO!!!). He would not do things like this, especially the example, if he were neutral. However, there is one occasion during Series 3 where he is quoted as saying: "WE'RE celebrating an unbeaten record" which obviously aligns him with the dungeon against the challengers (could be intentional, as he is master of the place anyway - it doesn't necessarily mean he enjoys watching dungeoneers die and it could have been intended to be a sarcastic comment).

And indeed, I cannot remember every single detail of every last quest of course, but I saw nothing in the last five series that would indicate he is any more aligned with the dungeoneers as he was in the first three. Indeed his advisory duties are split with his assistants. What are your thoughts on this matter?

3. In the introduction to the very first episode of series 1, Treguard proclaims that he alone has conquered the dungeon but imagine if he'd had a go during the show's run, as a Christmas bonus or something. Can you imagine him wearing the Helmet of Justice and saying "Where am I?" every time he enters a room? What would you like to see in this "fantasy" quest? Who would you choose for his advisors and who would take his place as a temporary dungeon master?
Last edited by Anonymous on Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:Concerning Treguard

Post by HStorm » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:15 pm

Pookas Rule wrote: 1. Is "Treguard" Treguard's christian name or his surname? Is this mentioned at all in the books?
It's his christian name as far as I can tell. Being a Saxon, he may not have a surname in the post-Norman sense; before the Conquest, Englishmen would often give their names as simply the place they came from e.g. Cedric of Rotherwood, Alfred of Wessex etc. Treguard's full name appears to be Treguard of Dunshelm.

It should be considered that he may be of Scandinavian descent, as 'Treguard' doesn't sound like a Saxon or Norman name, but might be Norse/Swedish.

2. I have heard many say that during Series 1-3 Treguard was supposed to be completely neutral and did not align himself with either the dungeon or the dungeoneers and he did not become a complete ally until Series 4. I disagree with this.
His general attitude through the first two seasons is unmistakeably sadistic. He does not side with the Dungeon inhabitants of course, but he clearly enjoys watching other people suffer, be they dungeoneer or guard.

In the very first episode, to punctuate his non-alignment, he actually says, "Now I can do nothing for you even if I wished", clearly implying that he has no personal interest in the dungeoneer's fate.

In the 'letter O' example you give, you have to consider that Mogdred was more or less torturing Treguard. He needed the dungeoneer to escape in order to save himself. In that specific situation, he couldn't afford to stay neutral, but by the next chamber he was disinterested again - notice he didn't even thank the team for freeing him from Mogdred's thrall.

In later seasons Treguard is far gentler with the teams in his demeanour, and shows far more concern for dungeoneers and explicit disappointment when they fail. (See Nicola's death in season 7.) There is no doubt at all in my mind that he is far more firmly aligned from around season 4 onwards.

3. Can you imagine him wearing the Helmet of Justice and saying "Where am I?" every time he enters a room? Who would you choose for his advisors and who would take his place as a temporary dungeon master?
No idea, but if it's any help, when he mastered the Dungeon, the Gruagach was the Dungeon Master, and his advisors were Folly and, less directly, a maid called Anna and a witch called Leahra.
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Re:Concerning Treguard

Post by PookasRule » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:33 pm

Many thanks for your detailed and informative reply HStorm. It's really good that we have experts like you to aid newbies like myself. Your answer to my query regarding Treguard's allegiance has allowed me to see the facts from a new angle and it makes a great deal of sense. I hadn't considered that he only wanted to be released from Mogdred's grip and now that I think about it I certainly did notice his lack of gratefulness once he was free. Thanks for clearing things up for me. :)

I wonder what made Treguard decide that it would be worth his while to actively support the dungeoneers.
Last edited by Anonymous on Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:Concerning Treguard

Post by HStorm » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:56 pm

Pookas Rule wrote: Thanks for clearing things up for me. :)
No problem. (It's only really my opinion anyway.)
I wonder what made Treguard decide that it would be worth his while to actively support the dungeoneers.
I never liked the change in Treguard's personality. He was far more interesting when he was neutral, partly because his behaviour was less predictable, but also because he seemed a lot less dense like that; he wouldn't help the dungeoneers when they were in trouble because he chose not to. In later seasons he clearly wants to help, but apparently he can't, suggesting he's too thick to understand the way the chambers of his own Dungeon work. (I also hate how kiddie-friendly he is in later years. The 'There-there-never-mind' way he talks to teams after they've lost thanks to making a stupid cock-up sounds incredibly patronising.)

The change-over, as with a lot of the changes around the middle years, goes completely unexplained. I suppose we can speculate that it has something to do with the emergence of Lord Fear, whose rivalry with Treguard is very different from Mogdred's, but it's not really the job of the audience to explain it. The joy of lazy retcons eh?
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Re:Concerning Treguard

Post by PookasRule » Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:09 am

This topic is a good example of why I consider Treguard my favourite character (besides my little green friends and Mogdred). He has so many layers to his character and his behaviour and motivations can be explained by any one of a thousand different theories and unless Tim Child steps in and explains what he envisioned Treguard as in the first three series, any of our opinions could be correct.

I think the reason why Treguard states "Now I can do nothing for you even if I wished" is that he realizes that it is the task of the team to complete the quest - not his and he cannot literally step in and take charge - he must remain on the sidelines and offer subtle hints. Were he to actually stand up and guide the team through the dungeon, the credit for the success of the quest would fall at his feet and the team may just as well have stayed at home. The term "even if I wished" could relate to a situation where he felt the team would REALLY need his help, yet he couldn't step in and take over because it would be morally wrong of him to do so.

Also, would a character who didn't care about the dungeoneer's fate repeatedly inform them that they are wasting life force/life force is critical or tell them to take care in certain situations?

On an unrelated note I love how he reacts to Julie's death in Season 3: "Oooooh, ohh that is NASTY!!! I shouldn't look any more if I were you." It makes you wonder what the goblins had in mind for their captive.
Last edited by Anonymous on Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:Concerning Treguard

Post by BrotherStrange » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:36 pm

Pookas Rule wrote:
On an unrelated note I love how he reacts to Julie's death in Season 3: "Oooooh, ohh that is NASTY!!! I shouldn't look any more if I were you." It makes you wonder what the goblins had in mind for their captive.
Well Lord Fear once said in Se7: "Goblins, they tend to eat prisoners". So they perhaps had dinner in mind!
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Re:Concerning Treguard

Post by Velvet » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:14 am

So Folly once guided Treguard through the dungeon? Where's the story for that? It sounds worth digging out!
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Re:Concerning Treguard

Post by HStorm » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:52 pm

Velvet wrote: So Folly once guided Treguard through the dungeon? Where's the story for that? It sounds worth digging out!
It was in the first Knightmare novella. See http://www.gamebooks.org/show_item.php?id=1341
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Re:Concerning Treguard

Post by Velvet » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:00 pm

Ah, thank you!
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Re:Concerning Treguard

Post by PookasRule » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:13 am

Do you remember Team 10 of Series 2's encounter with the Medusa? How Treguard advised them to only look at the screen for a few seconds before turning away? Did you notice that Treguard himself keeps his gaze on the screen for the entirety of the challenge? He is one tough dungeon master!
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Re:Concerning Treguard

Post by HStorm » Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:27 am

Yeah, but I always got the impression it was because the medusa, indeed most of the Dungeon inhabitants, wouldn't dare to attack the Dungeon Master. It's not clear what powers of redress he had, but they must have been substantial, as intimated in several of the books.
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Re:Concerning Treguard

Post by AriadnesLayer » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:47 am

Perhaps once you master the dungeon, you become immune to it and things such as the medusa? This would explain why Treguard doesn't need to look away. (Although certain inhabitants who are powerful enough may still be able to cast spells of certain strength on him).

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