When Did Knightmare "Jump The Shark" For You?

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Re: When Did Knightmare

Post by pjmlfc05 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:32 pm

For me the dwarf tunnels were miles better in series 6. Along with the music adding to the tension. I did enjoy the article though and it's good people have different opinions. Mine is the show had to evolve to keep things fresh. If Knightmare kept using the same rooms, it probably would have lasted 4 series.
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Re: When Did Knightmare

Post by HobGoblin » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:20 pm

Oh I completely agree that the show had to evolve. My issue is the manner in which it did.

KM evolved over S1-3 via the introduction of great new rooms/monsters/characters. The real world aesthetic as represented by the eye shield showed (in my very humble opinion) a lack of imagination. It was no doubt a very easy way to expand the dungeon but it just wasn't as interesting.

There were of course some fantastic (and fantastical) innovations post S3 - the corridor of blades, block and tackle, causeways, trial by spikes, play your cards right (all a lot more fun than a photo/video of a real world location) but there simply weren't enough of them.
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Re: When Did Knightmare

Post by pjmlfc05 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:27 pm

Yeah the eyeshield was used too much. Like someone said maybe it could have been used as part of a task to gain reward.
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Re: When Did Knightmare

Post by Mystara » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:23 pm

Hobgoblin, you make an interesting point about not intending "jumping the shark" to be synonymous with "became rubbish".

Although I had always made this connection, now that you mention it, I suppose that it's not entirely true. I think it was supposed to represent the point at which the writing became so unrealistic as to be ridiculous, i.e. the writing became lazy.

In any case, I'm curious as to how you define it
and same question to Drassil.
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Re: When Did Knightmare

Post by HobGoblin » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:48 pm

Ok, from Wikipedia:

"Jumping the shark is an idiom created by Jon Hein that was used to describe the moment in the evolution of a television show when it begins a decline in quality that is beyond recovery, which is usually a particular scene, episode, or aspect of a show in which the writers use some type of "gimmick" in a desperate attempt to keep viewers' interest."

The introduction of the eye shield certainly didn't come at a point when KM producers were desperate but, for me, it does represent a single, jarring moment that began a decline in quality from which the show never recovered. In short, the show was past its best. But it was still great!

As per my previous post, the shield could also be symptomatic of lazy writing as less effort seemed to be going into the design of the dungeon.
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Re: When Did Knightmare jump the shark?

Post by Canadanne » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:05 pm

I think my interpretation of jumping the shark would be the moment at which the viewer feels "This is no longer the same show I fell in love with" - that the fundamental tone or focus has shifted in such a way that it's almost a whole different programme, and you wouldn't have become a fan if it had been like this to begin with.

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Re: When Did Knightmare

Post by HobGoblin » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:58 pm

The trouble is that jumping the shark refers to a single moment and shows don’t often suddenly become completely different in tone or focus – it tends to happen gradually.

I think my interpretation can be summed up as follows:

- It is a single moment/event within the programme (rather than a feeling in the viewer);
- That moment has to be jarring – a WTF moment, if you will;
- This WTF moment is a catalyst for an irrecoverable decline in quality;
- The moment itself is not necessarily related to the speed of decline or the eventual base level of quality (which may still be relatively high).

The episode of Happy Days after the JTS one was probably watched and enjoyed by millions of long term fans – but the seeds of decline had been planted.
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Re: When Did Knightmare jump the shark?

Post by Canadanne » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:32 pm

HobGoblin wrote:The trouble is that jumping the shark refers to a single moment and shows don’t often suddenly become completely different in tone or focus
They do in my experience, usually due to a change in writer / producer, departure of a key character, or introduction of a new character that changes everything.

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Re: When Did Knightmare jump the shark?

Post by Drassil » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:53 pm

HobGoblin wrote:Just read David's response to my article.

Firstly, a very entertaining read (as all David's posts are) and full of valid points.
Thank you, Chris. :) It's the lack of a single correct answer that makes this a worthwhile discussion, so maybe someone will contribute a third article in time.

For reference, Chris' article is here and mine is here.
Alan wrote:Hobgoblin, you make an interesting point about not intending "jumping the shark" to be synonymous with "became rubbish".

Although I had always made this connection, now that you mention it, I suppose that it's not entirely true. I think it was supposed to represent the point at which the writing became so unrealistic as to be ridiculous, i.e. the writing became lazy.

In any case, I'm curious as to how you define it
and same question to Drassil.
Jumping the shark is a convenient term but it is indeed possible to misuse it. In my experience, the general sense of a programme's irredeemable decline can be felt at the time, but associating that with a particular moment is more easily done in retrospect, especially after the series has ended. I don't actually remember how I felt in 1993 when I first watched the SIGHT spell being cast, but then I hadn't heard of the concept of jumping the shark in 1993 either.

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Re: When Did Knightmare

Post by pjmlfc05 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:09 pm

Jumping the shark can mean different things but I say it's when something happens but feels like a backwards step or when things become stale. I don't think Knightmare jumped the shark but I did feel it went full circle and it went as far as it could.
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Re: When Did Knightmare "Jump The Shark" For You?

Post by knightmaredave » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:52 pm

I don't think it did, at all technology chnged so did KM however series 8 was totally different and whilst i really enjoy it now, it might have been a bit much graphics and character wise changes the graphics would have been enough and maybe fewer less characters in it would have been whoah for the viewers

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Re: When Did Knightmare "Jump The Shark" For You?

Post by wombstar » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:26 pm

Well as I kid I probably didn't start watching until series 4, or 5 (they're quite similar) at least that my early memory of it back then.. and so the eye shield to me was just the norm, part of the show and i can't imaging it without it to be honest.

Certainly did not decline in quality that's for sure.
Season 8 might have been the weakest, i didn't like the reach want, the hew helmet was a bit rubbish, the life force pie was naff, and the season was far too short. But even still it was nice having it back inside the dungeon.

I think KM left the air before it was past it's sell by date.
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Re: When Did Knightmare "Jump The Shark" For You?

Post by HobGoblin » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:31 pm

Drassil wrote:
It's the lack of a single correct answer that makes this a worthwhile discussion, so maybe someone will contribute a third article in time.
I suppose what we really need is someone defending the eye shield or at least explaining why they think the show got better after S3 - judging by the FB comments these people exist!

Wombstar wrote:
the eye shield to me was just the norm, part of the show and i can't imaging it without it to be honest.
So out of interest - how are you finding watching S1/2 in comparison to the later series?

I often wonder how I'd feel about KM if I started watching at S4. I'm pretty sure I'd have really liked it but would it have the special place in my heart it now does? The fact is that if KM got cancelled after S3 I'd still be here on this forum chewing the fat about the best show of all time!
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Re: When Did Knightmare "Jump The Shark" For You?

Post by wombstar » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:48 pm

I like the early series, I seen them several times, but my association with knightmare was always with the eye shields and lord fear.. as a kid I didn't know it any other way.. (at least I don't remember seeing them) So when I watch the early stuff it doesn't feel like 'home'

Only thing I really disliked about the later ones was the dragon.. the rides just took forever.
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Re: When Did Knightmare "Jump The Shark" For You?

Post by TimeMaster » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:15 pm

For me, the replacement of Pickle with Majida was the moment when Knightmare jumped the shark. I felt that Pickle and Treguard was a perfect combination whereas I found Majida overbearing and felt that she altered the dynamic in the ante-chamber. I don't want to upset any Majida fans though - it's just a personal opinion!
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