BUT spell

[s4t8brett]

TRANSFORMATION: Here are two more ideas: 1) Helen into Malice, then disspell after Mogdred has left the chamber... or 2) transforming a dead-end into the end-of-quest chamber (or revealing the Corridor of Blades in an otherwise empty chamber)...

[JamesA]

Just to add my thoughts to this discussion...

I've always believed that the casting of the BUT spell would turn Mogdred's magic sword against him, with the sword then heading in his direction instead of Helen's. Once he had been hit by his own weapon, Mogdred would have made a retreat, causing himself and the sword to disappear.

As for the TRANSFORMATION spell, already mentioned elsewhere in this thread but I agree that it would have been used to reverse the effects of a poison bottle later on in the level (as it eventually would do in Dickon's quest).

[JamesA]

As for the TRANSFORMATION spell, already mentioned elsewhere in this thread but I agree that it would have been used to reverse the effects of a poison bottle later on in the level (as it eventually would do in Dickon's quest).

Forgot to add that in Dickon's quest, the spell used to transform the poison into a life force restorer was as we all indeed know, OPPOSITE (for some reason I can't edit my above post, hence this addition).

[Drassil]

Thank you for the positive comments about my previous post in this thread.

Personally I struggle with the idea that BUT would have influenced Mogdred's actions directly. It's a lot to ask of a "quite humble" spell, against a foe who can be even more powerful than Merlin on Level 3 (according to Merlin himself in Quest 8). It also doesn't account for the floating sword: newly designed and animated for Series 4, it must have had some intended purpose i.e. I believe the team would have had to do something against it.

It seems highly unlikely that this scene with Mogdred was intended to be the final encounter.

That's an interesting idea. After all, Malice met Dickon (Quest 6) twice, not counting the bridge.

On the other hand, Mogdred's words suggest to me that it is highly likely to have been Helen's final encounter with him: "There is no escape this time ... I shall now put an end to [your progress] in person. Prepare to receive the doom of Mogdred." Malice, by contrast, is far from threatening when she first confronts Dickon.

And when Malice does meet Dickon for the final encounter, his "most powerful" and "quite humble" spells are both needed, one after the other, in that room. I'm inclined to think that the same would have been true for Helen.

[Morghanna]

Sorry. What i meant was that i didn't think this scene with Mogdred would have been the final encounter (the last room) of their quest.
Mogdred might not have returned during their quest, but presumably there were still other challenges ahead.

[AriadnesLayer]

After all his highly threatening remarks to Helen about ending her quest, personally I can't see anything moving Mogdred to be deliberately charitable,

The.... the spell....

The whole point of being under a spell is that you're.... under a spell. Your actions aren't deliberate.

[s4t8brett]

I agree with Ariadne's Layer on that: but exactly what Mogdred might have said is hard to predict. The thing is, there are so many things Tim could have written for Mogdred to say in providing a way out; we won't know unless he tells us, and I think we're unlikely to guess it.

[Drassil]

After all his highly threatening remarks to Helen about ending her quest, personally I can't see anything moving Mogdred to be deliberately charitable,

The.... the spell....

The whole point of being under a spell is that you're.... under a spell. Your actions aren't deliberate.

I'm aware that a few Knightmare spells enchanted characters and made them less adversarial, such as CREEP (Smirkenorff), ADORE (Fatilla) and PICKMEUP (the Knightmare VR gargoyle). How susceptible a more powerful, magical character such as Mogdred, Morghanna or Lord Fear could have been to such a spell is a matter of opinion.

Had I originally written -

After all his highly threatening remarks to Helen about ending her quest, personally I can't see anything moving Mogdred to be charitable, especially in the final stages. But we'll probably never know.

- without the word 'deliberately', my point would have been the same.

I used the word 'personally' to acknowledge that this is only how I see it and that others will see it differently.

It's not my intention to post things in a confusing way. If you found my comment unclear, you could have said, "I don't think what you've said makes sense" and I'd gladly have clarified. The fact that you chose instead to be so elaborate and emphatic - bold, and pauses for effect, and a negative emoji, and italics, and underlining - is very disappointing and came across as rude. I wouldn't want to see any member of this forum replied to like that.

[AriadnesLayer]

How susceptible a more powerful, magical character such as Mogdred, Morghanna or Lord Fear could have been to such a spell is a matter of opinion.

I think it was just a matter of the show's creators doing whatever they felt was good TV; I don't think they took a poll on viewer opinions before deciding if magical characters could and should be susceptible to certain spells. I mean, had another quest not been successful and we never saw what the "SPLASH" spell did, you could easily be saying here "I don't think a character like Lord Fear would be susceptible to such a silly sounding spell". But we know that he was.

You have no idea if Mogdred would or wouldn't be susceptible to any spell we didn't see used, and nor do I, and I highly doubt the makers were worried about things like "Oh we shouldn't do this, Mogdred is too powerful." But rather "What effects can we do with the budget we have?"

It's not my intention to post things in a confusing way. If you found my comment unclear, you could have said, "I don't think what you've said makes sense" and I'd gladly have clarified. The fact that you chose instead to be so elaborate and emphatic - bold, and pauses for effect, and a negative emoji, and italics, and underlining - is very disappointing and came across as rude. I wouldn't want to see any member of this forum replied to like that.

If you have a problem with the way I choose to use italics, underlines, and emoticons to convey expression, emphasis and emotion (which I have spent 20 odd years believing was their very function on forums like this where simple text can be hard to intepret, and none of which was intended to be negative), then I would appreciate if you'd send me a private message about it where it can be discussed civily rather than give me a public flogging. It's not my intention to be unclear. If you found my use of those things confusing, you could have said "I don't understand why you've worded your post like that" and I'd gladly have clarified. Simply deciding off the bat that I was being rude, is very disappointing, and as a member of this forum I did not like being replied to like that.

[Mystara]

BUT and TRANSFORMATION are one of the biggest outstanding questions across the Knightmare episodes.
For reasons that may become apparent in due course, I managed to get an answer to this quest.

1) It was intended that the team cast BUT followed by TRANSFORMATION.

2) The spell BUT was intended to make Mogdred stumble over his words, specifically the word 'but'.

3) TRANSFORMATION would cause Mogdred to transform into Merlin, whereupon he would open a door for the team to escape the room.

4) The room was not the final room, but it was close.

There remains some contention regarding the matter, so I need to have a think about how to best present things. Some things may be better left buried.

[s4t8brett]

Thanks, Mystara - that's interesting. I always thought 'TRANSFORMATION' would have acted on the dungeoneer. I think that team had yet to encounter the level 3 door monster.

[Canadanne]

So cool to finally have an answer to this - I didn't think it would ever be possible to find out!
Can't wait to hear more!

[Alex_Smith]

This is really interesting. I’ve genuinely been wondering about it ever since it was first broadcast. I remember becoming convinced at the time (or maybe a couple of years later during a rewatch) that the BUT spell would have magically summoned a goat that would run at Mogdred and headbut him off the screen.

This makes much more sense.