Series 3 - Episode 9

WhiteDevil
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Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by WhiteDevil » Tue Jul 29, 2003 7:11 pm

Hiya guys,
Me and Steve (aka. SrWilson3S) have been having a friendly debate on this topic...

For a quick refresher of the team heres the link http://knightmare.v21hosting.co.uk/seri ... ams_p2.htm -

My Side of the Arguement
************************

This team chose the Rose and the Silver in the Clue room. The rose they gave to Velda... However in the corridor of the catacombs they turned left, it is clearly stated in the adventurers code: http://knightmare.v21hosting.co.uk/behi ... /Code1.jpg that "Good" is often defined as the right hand path and when there is no other indication of hints, it is often best to choose it.

This team chose the left hand path in the Corridor of the Catabombs, which led them straight to Mrs Grimwold + Festus with portcullus' blocking all 4 doors... They then cast the WARRIOR spell and scared away Grimwold, and broke thought the portcullus into their death room... (courtesy of The Ogre) - It could be assumed that the team may have not even met Grimwold if they had gone right, therefore eliminating totally the Ogre coming in
and killing them...

I believe that if they had chosen the right hand path they would have been taken to the same room as their death, but the wellway would not have been needed to be created with the crayon (the object they left in Clueroom), and they would have had to bribe somebody, maybe Grimwold with the silver...

Im sure Steve would like to hear your comments as much as i do,  ;D
Last edited by Illusion on Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by SrWilson3S » Tue Jul 29, 2003 7:13 pm

My side of the arguement is that yes they took the left path but teams in KM have taken the left path before and lived even though that always pick the right path rule has applied all the way through KM.
But my point is the reason that team died is because they didnt take the crayon plain and simple, that is what was needed regardless to create the well way into level 2 and they simply chose the wrong object in the clue room as simple as that. I don't think going left or right was going to matter since they needed to meet mrs grimworld to get the 3rd step. And because They didnt get the crayon in the clue room they failed perhaps if they had scored 3 Golgarach may have told them to take the crayon too. Often theres Gold for a clue to take but this was Silver so theres obviously a bit of difference there and maybe they should have realised that taking the less obvious thing was going to be right.
Bottom line the path they went didnt matter they were doomed as soon as they didnt take the crayon to create the well.

So whats you peoples opinion on this teams death do you agree with white devil or me?
Last edited by SrWilson3S on Tue Jul 29, 2003 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by GrimaldineGrimwold » Tue Jul 29, 2003 7:41 pm

I'm with SrWilson3S.

I think they were meant to take the crayon. The fact there was some parchment in the wellway room seems to suggest they needed it. I think if they'd got a perfect score in the Clue Room they'd definitely have received that information. At that point in the dungeon's history, it seems that the clue objects you needed were predetermined. If you didn't get the information on which to take, you might get lucky, you might not. I think that compares with some later episodes where less advice was given, but just about any reasonable combination of objects seems to work. I'm particularly thinking of Series 4 there, where it sometimes seemed like whatever they took when not given the chance at getting clues was what they needed (so long as you didn't take the weapon, obviously).

I don't think going left killed them. It wasn't a good idea, but if that had been the reason, why bother going through the scene with La Grimwold and Festus? Why not just kill them off straight away or give them an extra manoevring obstable to survive, as happened with other teams? In addition, other teams at that time survived when they took the "wrong" door.

I think Grimwold the Ogre was put there to speed it up. I guess if they'd actually had the crayon he wouldn't have made an appearance, or he'd have only done so once they were close to the well.
 
Last edited by GrimaldineGrimwold on Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by Purgatory » Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:59 pm

isnt this the team that also took the wrong door at the very start? by ignoreing the quest symbol?

they where terrible..  takeing the left path doesn't decided if they are winners it losers.. just happens that the left path tends to cause more problem and much harder rooms with teams tend to fale at (look at the team in level 3 who fell off the edge)

anyway the gold or silver or whatever that pick brick was..would never get them to level 2.. that was the whole point in haveing the rose=spell=info and so on.
i don't believe they make the quest up as the team go alone but i do believe they have to be ready if the team takes a harder room or makes any big mistakes.. there for being in the Ogre  to kill the team off instead of just letting them hang around for a while or get killed by the skull.. not quite as effective as an huge ogre eating them
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Re: Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by JamesA » Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:21 am

SrWilson's comments are spot on, as Treguard commented at the end that they needed the crayon to get to Level 2

Oh, and the spell used against Mrs Grimwold was TRANSFORM, not Warrior
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Re: Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by Brangwen » Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:24 am

Well at the Corridor of Catacomb's, I always thought that the symbols there, below the doors resembled a Shield and a Chalice (well the Chalice anyway), perhaps they thought that because of that, they were supposed to go left.
Nevertheless, I never really liked that team and wanted them to die a horrible death in the bomb room, no offence to them.
If I was them I would probably have gone with the Crayon anyway, I never did think, first time I was that ep that the bar of silver was going to get them anywhere.

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Re: Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by Melisandrinoff » Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:38 am

My bro was also shouting "die!! die!!" at them in the bomb room  ;) We'd decided they were a hopeless case after they took the wrong door... But I think the fact that they took the silver and not the crayon was their undoing - if they'd have taken the crayon, chances are the ogre wouldn't have turned up - I think he probably did only because they couldn't win and it would be boring to have them stand around not knowing what to do til the skull killed them.
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Re: Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by WhiteDevil » Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:36 am

SrWilson's comments are spot on, as Treguard commented at the end that they needed the crayon to get to Level 2

Oh, and the spell used against Mrs Grimwold was TRANSFORM, not Warrior
I am not deaf mate, my hearing is perfect so please dont tell me what he said because i know... And does it actually matter what spell they used?


Im talking about the possibility of not needing the crayon at all, ever, if they had chosen the right path.. I still think it wouldnt have come into play, as only once during the series did it appear...

Im now out for the day, will see ya all later  ;D
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Re: Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by RoxxAatherton » Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:17 pm

I'm with WhiteDevil here

Not because I agree with his point of veiw or what he said, just because everyone else has gone with his mate.

And he called someone 'mate' just before ridiculing him.

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Or a professional thief

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Re: Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by Dan » Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:07 pm

I think they were meant to take the crayon.
I agree, and I think Tim from Dicken's (winning) team summed it up properly when their team had to decide which objects to take from Oakley, with one of the choices being gold - "I think the gold's just greed".

It's a bit like the "don't handle the weapons of the opposition" rule - if you're directed otherwise by a clue or scroll, it's ok.  If you're not told anything or don't earn the information, then taking the weapon or being greedy (taking useless silver/gold) will kill you.

In my opinion this going left when you should go right stuff is overrated.  It often leads to additional hazards, but not outright death (the team that jumped off the spindizzy at the wrong place in series 3, for example).

I -also- think people who grew up with the later series and are only now seeing series 3 perhaps don't appreciate how ruthless the dungeon can be on mistakes; it seems quite contradictory to suggest that (in series 3 at least) a team that takes the wrong object from a clue room would've been let off had they not taken the left hand door!  They were doomed from the moment they didn't take the crayon.

I'm sure there were other teams killed off for taking gold/silver when not instructed to - I'll have to go through the series guides now and check. ;-)
Last edited by Dan on Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by Dan » Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:11 pm

I am not deaf mate, my hearing is perfect so please dont tell me what he said because i know... And does it actually matter what spell they used?
I think he was just typing it in caps because that how spells are traditionally written.  And as to whether it matters what spell you use or not, ask Helen's team from series 4. ;-)
Im talking about the possibility of not needing the crayon at all, ever, if they had chosen the right path.. I still think it wouldnt have come into play, as only once during the series did it appear
This is series 3, not series 4.  Mistakes don't go unpunished.  And, as I said in my previous post, this 'taking the left hand door will get you killed' thing is seriously overrated.  The knightmare books and the interactive challenge things Ali Everett did play strongly on this, but it simply doesn't happen in the series - a team is not killed off just for taking the left-hand door (unless they've been specifically told to take a different one).

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Re: Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by KaM » Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:59 pm

Dan, I've got your example for you.

S7, Team 2 I believe it is - what a spooky quest that was too - the team getting chased through dwarf tunnels in Level 1 by Raptor and his ugly assilants - and then getting mauled by what we can only presume to be a combination of goblins and a troll - since it went dark and they had no NightSight but rather a bar of silver instead.

The unfortunate instance was that having chosen the silver - which, to be honest, tended to be a giveaway in its uselessness because of its inferiority to gold, the team then came across some gold which magically appeared at the start of the Trial by Spikes. As soon as that appeared, you got the instant feeling that they shouldn't have two forms of payment - and that the silver would be no use. In fact, the only time this was of any use, was in S4 when the boatman asked for silver and gold, the latter found in Ariadne's chamber - and I you rightly said, S4 was often too kind on mistakes.

However, although they weren't to know the gold would appear in the lovely sharp chess room, decisions to take payment cost them the place in the game, and they totally misunderstood what the NightSight might be used for, as I recall. Anyway, that's a piece of evidence for your bitings. :)

James, good sir! How are you doing? You come and shout and me some sir.. I've still got your voice message on my mob. and love the accent. Besides, want to hear more of the old 'CUT - it's a HE!' ;)
Last edited by KaM on Wed Jul 30, 2003 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by WhiteDevil » Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:16 pm

And he called someone 'mate' just before ridiculing him. Perfect people skills, you should become a politican
I aim to be a prosecutor,  ;D
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Re: Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by SrWilson3S » Thu Jul 31, 2003 12:18 am

Just thought id tell you whitedevil Im winning this arguement heheh ;D.

Its all good man :) see ya on MSN soon hopefully

peace.

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Re: Series 3 Kellys team death controversy!

Post by WhiteDevil » Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:44 am

I know ya are Sr  ;)

Everyone can have their own opinion, and i still stick to mine - though i have been swayed a bit by RedMage's post about Gold being better than Silver...

We said we'd keep this to the forum, see ya soon matey  ;D
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