Series 3 - Leo and Martin

[Fidjit]

In the first room of level three both Leo and Martin took the right hand door, the one with the bones trailing out. Could that of sealed their fate? Ross' team worked this out and escaped into the left hander with hauntings chasing them... But I can't prove this because Ross didn't get very far...

[SrWilson3S]

Leo and Martin took the correct paths (The right side path) it was other mistakes from them both which cost them the game - Leo failed to get the Gargoyles riddle correct and Martin didnt get Dragon Magic from the sleeping Dragon hence they were both killed for these mistakes.

[MrP]

I agree with SrWilson3S - I think there was a logical reason for choosing either of the two doors and therefore I don't think any of the teams were punished for their choice.

As pointed out, Martin & Leo got questions wrong. I'm convinced that at least one of them would have won otherwise.

As for Ross - they were just unlucky, I suppose...

[KaM]

One of my favourite death sequences; S3; Tm6. The issue is long debated ~ how significant the choice is between right and left doors. Not always fatal, for certain, and I think leniency was applied if and when the team was forced into making pressured or quick decisions. It sounds rather inflicting to suggest that on many an occasion, the room lying behind both doors would be the same - it's a possibility for sure.

With this particular team, yes-  in my opinion, they had no other choice but to head for the left hand exit, because of the hauntings, one of which prevented access to the right hand side of the area. My guess is, that this clever little chasm had been constructed, and, with only 2 teams of the first 6 making it to level 3, the concern was to use it while possible, in case further teams failed to do so. Also, Natasha Pope was in position for their arrival, and I doubt it was pre-produced, as there is a clash of words between Morghanna and Treguard. Given that, I would imagine that they might have encountered this chamber whichever route was taken from the level 3 intro room. I think the exit from the ledge would have led to either clue room or the 'M' table, and - yes, it was unfortunate that they came across a harder challenge early in level 3 than either Martin or Leo; but it wasn't impossible (they almost made it!) and they were accompanied through most of level 2 anyway; a test would have balanced it out.

Riddles were the key to the completion of the quests, although I still believe Leo was favoured theoretically - he had the chance to choose the right path, if the producers were to allow them to continue having chosen the path that was intended to be correct, but by guesswork, with wrong answers not ascertaining their route for them. Martin was doomed by Morghanna even though his route was shown.

A question I have, which must have been asked before: In Leo's quest - L3: the stardust did nothing, and I very much doubt the shield would have offered any true protection. Mogdred's offered spell, 'Glory', I doubt would have been the route to victory, but he did seem right that none of the objects were of use ~ so what is that all about?

[Dan]

It sounds rather inflicting to suggest that on many an occasion, the room lying behind both doors would be the same - it's a possibility for sure.

I think the same room was behind the right- and left- paths more often than not.  Only in cases where there was some clue as to which door to take (the Oracle's "when faced with death, go left" clue to Leo, for example) would they differ significantly.  Or maybe an additional bomb room to go through, or an extra puzzle (Scott's team jumping off the spindizzy at the wrong point).

I still believe Leo was favoured theoretically - he had the chance to choose the right path, if the producers were to allow them to continue having chosen the path that was intended to be correct, but by guesswork, with wrong answers not ascertaining their route for them. Martin was doomed by Morghanna even though his route was shown.

Hmm - as soon as Leo got the question wrong (which was a much harder question than Martin's team got!), he would have been deemed a losing team, and not allowed to win.  Whichever path he took out of the stained glass window room would've lead to his demise, in my opinion.  Possibly they would've just killed him off some other way, but I doubt in the unforgiving series 3, they'd let a team that got a level 3 question wrong survive.

Besides, "Peril is the reward of ignorance... walk in peril, Leo" is the best line from a wall monster ever. ;-)

A question I have, which must have been asked before: In Leo's quest - L3: the stardust did nothing, and I very much doubt the shield would have offered any true protection. Mogdred's offered spell, 'Glory', I doubt would have been the route to victory, but he did seem right that none of the objects were of use ~ so what is that all about?

Hmm, I don't know - in series 2, the shield was used to guard against the glare of the Medusa, although Leo's team had already gone past her.  My guess is that the stained glass window room was not the penultimate room (before the guillotine room) and as such there was something else the team would have to do with those items before reaching the end.  The only way you'll find out for sure is by getting Tim Child to reveal his planned storylines for the closing stages of a series 3 quest...

...beveryafraid? ;-)

[KaM]

Hey up sir. Some follow up thoughts on your own. All agreements, for sure.

Je suis d'accord concerning the right-and-left path situation. I was tentative when I first wrote that suggestion, perhaps believing it to be true more convincingly than I suggested, but it certainly seems very plausible now. I believe far too much was made of the right-left idea, but it was good to have some trademark rules for Knightmare established.  "far too much" - I really refer to the debates that go on about certain teams' demise coming from selecting a left exit 6 rooms previous or something ~ just not really a solid argument at all. It was evident that in the later series, the eye-shield and elf-portals really cut out a large element of that exit choice. One of only a few places where I remember it being prominent was in the Descender, where, with a choice of two, and a FrightKnight often above the right hand exit, you could never be sure which would be the kindest - but again, possibly cancelling each other out.

On the Leo issue, I think I've confused myself with the sentence I wrote there - I hope not others too. I think you're right, sir - I doubt he would have been allowed to win, even if he had chosen the path intended. I guess that just pointed out that should he have chosen the correct path, and been allowed to continue, even through just sheer luck, he would then be considered favourable. Nods on Martin's question being harder - and it would have been unfair to allow Leo's team to advance in this way, and then have Martin's team killed off without a chance.

As for the question; quite possible sir... never considered the possibility of a further room. Yet, if that had been the case, it might have been interesting, should he have chosen the correct path (stained glass room) by guesswork, to let the team encounter this final foe. I'm not sure of my accuracy here, but another room might have been owed ~ it seemed as if Martin's L3 was much longer - possibly because we saw the L3 dwarf tunnels in his quest connecting room to room. Still - it's great to have all these little unknowns to ponder over - for if there were none, we might run out of issues to quiz ourselves over.

[Dan]

...should he have chosen the correct path, and been allowed to continue...to let the team encounter this final foe

Yes, it would've been good to see a "final showdown" with Mogdred; I haven't seen series two since it was first broadcast, so I can't remember fully, but I don't think there was ever a final showdown with him other than right at the start of Series 4 where he put an end to Helen's quest.  Would've been nice to see him beaten ;-)

we saw the L3 dwarf tunnels in his quest connecting room to room

Yes, I didn't realise until I saw Leo's quest again that Martin's quest is the only one we see those lovely beige dwarf tunnels, and hear that creepy fuzzed-up bass note in the background (someone else on some other thread pointed out that the background note is actually different in levels 1, 2 and 3).  Wonder why that was?