KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Series, Teams, History, Behind the scenes etc. - all discussed here.

Was KM unfair?

es (definitely unfair)
7
30%
ot sure
3
13%
o (totally fair)
13
57%
 
Total votes: 23

Avace
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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by Avace » Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:14 pm

As there were choices to be made on the path to take, is it possible that any two of the clue items "could" be required for the quest if certain paths were chosen?

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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by Raven » Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:17 pm

They could have taken out a few unimportant scenes in order to fit the episode into the series, but noooo.
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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by HStorm » Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:18 pm

Very unlikely. In truth, the game was far more linear than it appeared, even in the early seasons, and when Treguard told the first team in S1 "There is no 'correct' route through the dungeon..." he was fibbing. There was always a right exit from a chamber and any others were probably lethal (or in some cases led to exactly the same place - Ariadne's lair had three exits in s2, and they all seemed to lead to Merlin's library judging by the different quests).
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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by Raven » Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:21 pm

There was sometimes indication of which door to go through. Remember one team ended up dieing because they went left instead of right.
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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by keke » Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:10 am

when was that death?
also i wonder what happened to the missing series 1 footage of the last team in level 2. lots of the rooms were never seen as they took clue objects and then they were gone by level 3. i'd love to see all of their quest and see how well they used the objects. hmm fire bell....
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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by Thanatos » Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:42 pm

Barry's quest was NOT fixed. Neither was Dunstan's. I have watched both dungeoneers' progress through the Corridor of Blades closely, carefully and repeatedly and on no occasion was either hit by a blade. See http://www.talkknightmare.co.uk/yabbse/ ... 4#msg25574 and N.B. the messages by me and Mystara.
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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by Thanatos » Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:54 am

And cases of items not needed to complete the level were much more common in the earlier series, especially one and two.
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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by Dan » Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:19 pm

keke wrote:when was that death?
There's one in the first series where a team are told through a riddle from Folly that they should go right. They go left, and are blown up in a bomb room.

There were also several riddles in Series 3 suggesting to teams which doorway to take (the Oracle to Leo, Hordriss to Julie); these teams both worked out the hint and took the correct doors, so didn't get killed off.

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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by MoanaLiza » Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:16 pm

Dan wrote:There were also several riddles in Series 3 suggesting to teams which doorway to take (the Oracle to Leo, Hordriss to Julie); these teams both worked out the hint and took the correct doors, so didn't get killed off.
There was also the one with Motley to I can't remember who, where in the end he actually in a way said which door to take.
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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by keke » Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:00 pm

oh yeah i remember them ones. that riddle folly gave was hard
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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by chrysalis » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:26 am

Superspurs wrote: When you watch KM closely you'll notice without doubt that some teams had much harder quests than other teams. I think that at least half of the 8 winning teams would not have won if they had of been given harder quests. For example :
Team 1 - Never had to face a level 3 clueroom or Medusa when they triumphed in series 2.
Ben's team- They never had to answer any riddles like the subsequent team did in L3. Also they never faced a clueroom in L3 when they won (series 6).
Barry's team- Were killed twice. In a fireball room and in the COB but they were let off the hook (series 7).
Dunstans team- This one is rather obvious (series 8).
Mind you I supposed that the producers had to slightly manipulate quests to make sure that there was NICELY-ROUNDED average of 1 winning team per season.
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I agree about bens team.

1 - On the l3 causeway the dropping sword didnt start until after they picked up the food, it then also dropped less platform then usual, this was the main reason they seemed to be so far ahead of the falling blocks. After spelling out find, the sword again on path was slow at dropping the blocks and allowed an extra drop. This team was fast but they did seem to be helped.
2 - taking the crown back to the team with critical lifeforce, the team werent guiding him in the tunnel its as if he knew where to go and the lifeforce should have ran out.

The team after bens team died on the l3 causeway.

1 - The sword started dropping immediatly.
2 - they got the food but the energy never recharged although they died anyway from the falling blocks.

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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by Eyeshield » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:35 am

The difference between Ben and Sofia on the Great Causeway, of course, is that Ben had learned the combination (well, the first two numbers of it) and Sofia had not. As it was level three, they really couldn't let Sofia get through without this information. As for Ben, I think that many of the winning teams (as I have mentioned in TES) were helped by the production team quite a lot when there had been a distinct lack of winners for some time, and Ben's team is certainly one of them. Don't get me wrong - I think they were an excellent team, but only having to use one object on levels one and three, no dud objects in level two, no password in level two, no fare for Smirkenorff... they certainly didn't have as tough a time of it as Sofia.
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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by chrysalis » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:13 pm

so you think it was right to force kill them by cheating?

I just rewatched both and my opinion is Bens team of course only knew the first 2 digits, they got the 3rd and 4th right but had no clue what the 5th one was so just skipped it and walked straight forward withought waiting to find out, this was allowed by the production team.

Sofia probably also got the first 2 right anyway as the food was placed on the correct block but they would have had to guess the other 3 numbers. They froze up at that point tho, but I think they could have frozen because they were sitting waiting for the lifeforce to recharge after they picked up the food, I think this should have happened and they at least should have been allowed to guess the path.

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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by Eyeshield » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:34 pm

Sofia's team were killed because they didn't answer enough of Hordriss's questions to get the scroll with the first two numbers of the causeway code. Yes, it was harsh to kill them off without giving them any chance to attempt the causeway, but I can understand why the production team did it. One small mistake in level three was enough to end many quests without hope of a reprive, and Sofia's was one of them.

Ben, on the other hand, had got the scroll (by taking it from Ariadne's room, which was probably a lot easier than having to answer questions for it) and so did not need to be penalised for making a mistake. Coming hot on the heels of a winning team, Sofia's team was never likely to be let off if they made a mistake, and they paid for it in the end.
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Re:KNIGHTMARE Unfairness

Post by Drassil » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:45 pm

Hi, chrysalis. I do think there was an element of unfairness to Ben's victory, and have written an assessment in the relevant Episode Discussion thread: http://www.knightmare.com/forum/http:// ... eadid=1195

I'm not sure what to make of the Great Causeway. Fortunately others are, and you may find this thread interesting: http://www.knightmare.com/forum/http:// ... eadid=1207
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