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They should have been allowed to enter level 3 and killed off there in some crazy and creative way.

Yes, a harsh death, especially as they arguably got the riddle correct - if an elephant never forgets its memory then it always remembers its memory which means it never forgets...

But anyway.

I just loved the fact the team seemed to be having so much fun, particularly the middle advisor who had a really infectious, happy enthusiasm. The flip side was their poor, heartbroken faces after they'd been killed

I really enjoyed this episode - but what an unfair death! I had the feeling that the producers decided that they had to kill the team off - perhaps because the next team was waiting in the wings and the series was drawing to an end? Merlin really should have given them two or three riddles. It's such a shame because the dungeoneer did brilliantly with Cedric's riddles.

I also enjoyed seeing inside the well in this episode as well as the comedy value of the dungeoneer landing on Cedric's head!

I can understand the team not following Mildread's advice. Haven't there been episodes where teams have followed Mildread's advice only to be told by Treguard that they have been tricked? (Or am I confusing Mildread with Lilith?!)

Yes Steven falling on top of Cedric made me laugh!

It was nice to see a team enjoyed themselves as much as Steven and his team. Did feel sorry for them when they lost.

Cedric & Steven is one of my favourite scenes from early Knightmare.

Mildred says something like take the left door because the right one has a bomb behind it. The team seemed to think that if the left door was the 'right one to take' it would have had the bomb instead. Unless it was indeed a trap and they would have ended up someplace worse.

I also could tell the team had seen series 1 and had a pretty good idea of what they were doing and how to do it. "you're in a bomb room" one says without having to describe exactly where they are.

Real shame really, but they did get a few questions wrong in level 1 didn't they?

wombstar wrote:Mildred says something like take the left door because the right one has a bomb behind it. The team seemed to think that if the left door was the 'right one to take' it would have had the bomb instead. Unless it was indeed a trap and they would have ended up someplace worse.

I also could tell the team had seen series 1 and had a pretty good idea of what they were doing and how to do it. "you're in a bomb room" one says without having to describe exactly where they are.

Real shame really, but they did get a few questions wrong in level 1 didn't they?

If that was the case then I guess that's why the producers killed the team off. It's harsh but they should have got Merlin's question right. It wasn't a hard question either.

It's ironic that the dungeoneer used a gauntlet in two separate rooms, then found himself in a bomb room where he didn't have to use it.

I thought the AVAUNT spell was fun. After being shot at by dual energy beams on Level 1, the team got an opportunity to 'pay it forward'. Lucky they didn't cross the streams. The superfluity of the password and Casper annoyed me. I'm also not certain what happened to Edmund Dehn's voice on the bridge.

Comparing this team's Merlin encounter with Team 7's suggests that they were treated very unfairly indeed. Merlin asked Neil/Team 7 for three truths, was content with two (having helped them towards one answer) and was apparently never going to give them a spell anyway. For this team, it was a case of 'one out of one or the quest is done': one question, one wrong answer, no magic, fate sealed. It wiped the smiles off the advisors' faces and mine. I can only assume that the production team had decided to be harsh after showing leniency over the bomb room. Thank goodness that in Series 3, they decided that Merlin should give all teams the same chance.

Whiteknight wrote:I think though that without knowing what Merlin's spell was and a complete absence of information from Treguard after the light faded other than how good they are at disappearing (referring to earlier in the quest), we will never know for sure the official reason for the quest ending.

The team's death was badly handled. The Life Force clock as we know was added retrospectively, and creates confusion here as to the cause of death. It's ironic that "light source fading" and "Life Force fading" sound so similar, but Treguard only mentions the former. Yet if Steven/Stephen had simply been plunged into darkness, he could in theory have still reached the wellway. Given that Merlin had rambled on about Mogdred, the demise could have been attributed to him via a voiceover after or instead of the light fading.

Team 12 were generally doing well, altho they decided not to trust Mildread, who told them to go left. Unfortunately she was telling the truth. They went right and entered a bomb room, which made them panic. Was this a let-off?
Handled the beam room and the well room very competently, easily out-pacing the mechanical warrior.
They didn't need to put down the talisman and the gauntlet when they picked up the key. They could have kept the gauntlet, just in case there was a further use for it.

Amusing when he fell into level 2 and landed on Cedric.
Steven trounced Cedric with 3/3. Answered very quickly and didn't even need to consult his advisors.
Nice effects for the "AVAUNT" spell, more imaginative than the cavernwraith simply disappearing.
They were rather unfortunate with the trick question from Merlin. I thought they were gonna work it out when one of them said "memory".
They easily dealt with all the other challenges of level 2, but sadly they needed Merlin's magic to illuminate the well-room so that they could proceed. Their ending was a bit nondescript. (reminiscent of series 1, team 1) Presumably they would have received a spell from Merlin like "FLARE" or "LANTERN" and possibly an "ENERGY" spell.

Overall, this team were very good. With the exception of the bomb room, they directed Steven very quickly and calmly. They were unlucky to get one (trick) question from Merlin, which finished them. Appearances can be deceptive, but they looked younger than most teams on Knightmare, which makes their competent efforts even more impressive. With a bit of luck on that one question, they would have gone into level 3 and could have done extremely well.

Team 13 barely had time to start their quest before the bell sounded.

I think the death was fair. They only got one riddle, but it was an easy riddle that they should have known, it was just asked in a slightly cryptic way. It is nowhere near as bad as series 3 Leo failing a very tough riddle (how many adults have heard of Avebury stone circle, never mind young children?) and being finished off as a reult.

There does seem to be an inconsistence between the number of riddles a team correctly answer, and the amount of essential information they receive. One or two teams have scraped through with one riddle in the level 1 clue room, others needed to get all three right to get key information or a password. This adds an element of chance into the game, which is ok if luck is meant to play a part, but I thought knightmare was a logic and skill game, where luck should be minimal, if you die it is your own fault and every team gets treated equally.

Yes, you could describe team 12's ending as unfortunate, rather than unfair.
Across series 1-3 there was quite a lot of inconsistency in terms of the number of correct answers teams had to give and the help they received.

I agree the death was fair. Only one chance to gain magic but the riddle was easy, it was not like Leo's in series 3. I think if you can't get riddles based on (very) common knowledge like that correct, arguably you don't deserve to succeed. I was impressed with the dungeoneer answering Cedric's riddles correctly on his own, it is as if the advisors were hopeless at riddles in general (I can't criticise, I am also hopeless at riddles but the elephant never forgets one is elementary).

asrl07 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2020, 15:44 I think the death was fair. They only got one riddle, but it was an easy riddle that they should have known, it was just asked in a slightly cryptic way. It is nowhere near as bad as series 3 Leo failing a very tough riddle (how many adults have heard of Avebury stone circle, never mind young children?) and being finished off as a reult.

There does seem to be an inconsistence between the number of riddles a team correctly answer, and the amount of essential information they receive. One or two teams have scraped through with one riddle in the level 1 clue room, others needed to get all three right to get key information or a password. This adds an element of chance into the game, which is ok if luck is meant to play a part, but I thought knightmare was a logic and skill game, where luck should be minimal, if you die it is your own fault and every team gets treated equally.

Luck is definitely present in terms of level of difficulty. If riddles are seen as the harder parts of the quest, clearly some teams have a tougher quest than others, and if there are a lot of riddles, it seems you have to nail pretty much all of them to succeed barring carelessness. The difficulty of the riddles also varies from quest to quest.

When choosing their objects in the level 2 clue room one of the advisors said to take the key & gold as we can just remember the emblem.
Presumably this team had done their homework and learned from the downfall of S1 team 1.