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Re: Series 2 - Episode 11

Posted: 18 Sep 2013, 17:55
by pjmlfc05
wombstar wrote:Nah for get the losers, I want all the winners back to see if they've still got what it takes. :)

Did I read that a member of this team was homesick and wanted to leave?
Yes a member of a team from series 4 I think. Don't know who though.

Re: Series 2 - Episode 11

Posted: 16 May 2014, 21:22
by Gretel
Elita wrote:I really think this team got a raw deal. Okay, so they missed the bits of the MEDAL spell, (but they didn't get much chance to get it what with the Automatum following so closely) but they could have escaped from Ariadne's Lair if they'd ignored Gretel. (I would have! I can't stand her!)  After all, she didn't give them anything useful for freeing her, since she just told them to use a spell they didn't have.

Anyway, I'm wondering what would have happened if they HAD ignored her. Since she didn't give them any clues or advice for later in the level, I don't see how ignoring her could have done any harm. Well, except for the whole code of chivalry thing... But still, it's bloody Gretel! Sod the code, I want to see Ariadne eat her!
Oh! That's charming that is!

*sulks*

Re: Series 2 - Episode 11

Posted: 16 May 2014, 21:33
by Gretel
If I remember correctly this is the episode my tagline comes from (excuse the double post but the Gretel in me would NOT leave that first comment alone!)

Re: Series 2 - Episode 11

Posted: 02 Jun 2020, 16:38
by Morghanna
Team 9 were going really well, 3/3 against Cedric and looking very competent.
However, they had to collect 3 pieces of a "MEDAL" spell in the 4-exit chamber but were intercepted by the mechanical warrior, so had to flee without all of the pieces. Controversy: :question: Were they given anything like enough time to collect all 3 pieces? It didn't appear so. They delayed for a moment, but no more than that....
Canadanne wrote: 13 Sep 2013, 23:28 There's something fishy about that Automatum scene where they don't have enough time to collect the medal pieces. Watch carefully when it switches back and forth between the room and the advisors - there's a slight change in lighting and camera position when the Automatum enters, as if the scene has been refilmed, and then it changes back again when Treguard says "Too late" and tells them to exit now. Perhaps something happened that we didn't get to see, so it wasn't as ridiculously harsh as it looked?
Exactly, there has surely been some tampering with this scene. The 1st and 3rd shots of the room are really bright, but the 2nd shot is very dull. It looks like a different take.
There is a lapse of 3 seconds (when they show you the advisors) between the 2nd and the 3rd shots, but in that time the mechanical warrior has advanced 4 or 5 paces and turned 45 degrees left. :exclaim: It was not moving that fast.
Can't imagine why they would re-film the scene, unless it was to change the outcome for some reason. :-/
A few rooms later they needed the "MEDAL" spell to escape from Ariadne and it was game over. It seemed extremely harsh. :(
I assume if they had abandoned Gretel and saved the "FREE" spell for themselves, it would have counted against them as they were in "losing-status" without the "MEDAL" spell.

Team 10 started ok, altho Julian burnt his feet in the scarab flame-room for minor life-force damage. 8-o
Convincing 3/3 against Olgarth (who has been a rare sighting this series) as time ran out.

Re: Series 2 - Episode 11

Posted: 03 Jun 2020, 11:17
by Pooka
I've been thinking about this one recently, oddly enough.
Morghanna wrote: 02 Jun 2020, 16:38 I assume if they had abandoned Gretel and saved the "FREE" spell for themselves, it would have counted against them as they were in "losing-status" without the "MEDAL" spell.
I hadn't even considered the fact that the team didn't have the MEDAL spell, weirdly - although it's been a while since I watched Series 2 so maybe it slipped my mind!

My assumption was that the team died because they weren't quick enough - could've positioned themselves next to the web with Gretel in, cast FREE to get rid of it, and then followed her through to the next room before the web re-appeared. However, neither Gretel nor Treguard gave any hint that this was the action to take (Knightmare characters did have a tendency to guide/escort dungeoneers who had done them a favour, but Gretel didn't offer to do so); the team dawdled and so the web re-appeared, leading to their death.

Is my assumption. The team didn't have the MEDAL spell, although I fail to see how that would have stopped Ariadne unless it squashed her under a huge medal or something. I think they would have had to use it later in the game, and although not having it did put them into losing status, I'm not entirely sure it would have helped with Ariadne very much.

Of course, if the production team wanted to kill the team off (for whatever reason) they may as well have had Ariadne do it. Were the team likely to be able to go further (ie. if they did have the MEDAL spell), then the web that they dispelled with FREE may have permanently been removed, giving them a clear path to the exit!

Re: Series 2 - Episode 11

Posted: 03 Jun 2020, 12:17
by Morghanna
This particular quest ending was certainly a strange one, because there were several points which were unclear. Did they really have enough time to collect all three spell pieces? Should they have used "FREE"? Were they supposed to use the "MEDAL" spell? What would it have done?

Gretel stressed that they should use the "MEDAL" spell, so presumably that was the correct way for them to escape Ariadne's lair. (i can't imagine what it would actually have done)
My theory is that they were supposed to free Gretel, then use the other spell (which they should have collected) to escape from Ariadne. In gratitude for their help, Gretel would have returned to help them later on in level 2.

I like the idea of them standing near her and then quickly leaving with her to the left.

Several people have commented on them casting "FREE" twice. I assume this was because there was a slight delay after the first casting and they may have thought it hadn't worked for some reason. Just as a different advisor began to try the spell, the first one worked.

I think it's great that this discussion thread has raised many different, but viable, theories.

For whatever reason the odds did seem stacked against this team. :(

Re: Series 2 - Episode 11

Posted: 03 Jun 2020, 15:38
by Canadanne
Morghanna wrote: 03 Jun 2020, 12:17 For whatever reason the odds did seem stacked against this team. :(

https://www.knightmare.com/forum/46/5185

Re: Series 2 - Episode 11

Posted: 03 Jun 2020, 18:39
by Morghanna
That's really good. ;D Very appropriate.

Re: Series 2 - Episode 11

Posted: 13 Jun 2020, 13:49
by asrl07
The death of the first team was horribly unfair. When they were in the room with the medal pieces, they went for the left one and the mechanical warrier came in and went directly towards the right hand piece. It was impossible for them to collect all pieces at this point, so it basically comes down to instantly taking a chance which piece to go for first. This turns it into pure luck rather than skill. The only way I can see they could have collected the Medal spell is if they took a chance that the warrior can only move in a straight line and thus waited for him to clear the rightmost piece before going for it. If that is not how the warrior works and it can turn back on a dungeoneer that is behind him, then given what piece they went for first, the dungeoneer would have to have full sight and run to each piece in order to collect them, in other words, impossible given the actual limitations of the dungeoneer. My opinion is that deaths should be down to carelessness or mistakes, not a crap shoot.

Re: Series 2 - Episode 11

Posted: 15 Jun 2020, 18:52
by Morghanna
This team had one of the most controversial endings to their quest.
Other extremely unlucky teams include series 1 team 5, series 3 team 2, series 4 team 1.