The new KM episode is up!

Discussion about Knightmare in youtube's Geek Week.
Post Reply
User avatar
shadow6162
Knight
Knight
Posts: 671
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 10:05 am
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
Contact:

The new KM episode is up!

Post by shadow6162 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:44 am

No-one's posted a link yet??? Okay, I'll do it then ;)

http://youtu.be/74r-EbIqt9s
I am merely a young girl's shadow...nothing more...nothing less...

Image

malibupete
Dungeoneer
Dungeoneer
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 8:33 pm

Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by malibupete » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:26 am

I watched it before I went to work this morning... I thought it was something of a mixed bag. Whilst I understand the decision to have four 'Youtube celebrities' in it, there were times early on when it felt like the advisors - particularly the greasy-haired boys - were playing it a bit too 'Oh, isn't this ironic'... And the less said about the opening couple of minutes, the better.

However, as the episode went on and everyone started to relax into things, it started to feel like a proper episode of Knightmare. The new character additions worked well, and the dungeon was better realised than anything in the show's final couple of years (It's a shame they used the Series 8 theme tune, but that's by the by). Treguard was a bit subdued, though - on more than one occasion, he just let the advisors talk over him - particularly at the end, when his having to wait for half a minute before saying "Ooh, nasty" just felt odd.

Once the game got into its swing, I really did enjoy the episode - I can't quite decide whether it feels like it could be the beginning of a new era or a fun little capstone, but if nothing else it takes the taste of Knightmare VR out of our mouths ;)

I didn't understand that final room, though; what path were they supposed to take? Was 'FEET' the correct one? If so, I think Stuart's jump was a bit unfairly penalised - that's surely something they would've refilmed in the main game? It felt like they needed somewhere convenient to end the episode, and that was as good as any...

User avatar
shadow6162
Knight
Knight
Posts: 671
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 10:05 am
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
Contact:

Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by shadow6162 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:35 am

I posted this review on Facebook, but I might as well put it here too:

First off, loving the new assistant Veru-...I mean Daisy. She seems to be kind of a fussy character but at the same time is quite nice and eager. I was so happy to see Hugo Myatt back as Treguard. I was a little worried that he wouldn't be as good as he was back in the days but no, he still has it.

I have to admit, I almost facepalmed myself when the advisors said at the start, "You're in a room." I knew it was supposed to be funny, but this is coming from someone who's heard this joke so many times before, so it was just a facepalm moment for me. None-the-less, I think the advisors were pretty good. Whereas with kids back in the 80's/90's, these lot are adults and they threw a bit of humour into it. Not too much, but just a little. It was perfect.

Sylvester the Jester...err...not too fond of him. He says something about him being a jester but at the same time he maintains his wit, but I just don't enjoy him as much as I did with Folly and Motley. But that's just my opinion.

SO HAPPY TO SEE MARK KNIGHT AND CLIFF BARRY BACK AS LORD FEAR AND LISSARD!!! ...okay so I may not be too keen on their new outfits, but the two spyglass sequences were good to watch. And you don't know how happy I am to hear the famous "Lordnessssssss..." again.

I never thought they'd bring Ariadne back. I was expecting a spider, but I didn't think it would her XD I really like the new animation for her too and she certainly brought a lot of panic to the team. Although...if I had to choose I'd say I prefer the classic Ariadne. You know, when she was a "real" spider.

The character of Theodora was a nice addition. She's like a bit of a mix between Elita and Stiletta I think. Cheeky but not rude and quite helpful too. I'd like to see her return if they bring Knightmare back.

And then...they brought Slice Me Dice Me back?! ...okay, while some people would say this was a stupid decision, I actually think it was okay. The axes really test the teams' timing and Phil was really clever to figure out the clue to spell out thief. Pity they weren't clear on how far Stuart had to jump XDDD

All in all, a good revival! I'd rate it 8/10 and HOPE TO THE GODS that maybe in the future, the show might come back!!!
I am merely a young girl's shadow...nothing more...nothing less...

Image

User avatar
Debz_g
Level 2 Dungeoneer
Level 2 Dungeoneer
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2002 5:19 pm
Location: Manchester, ex from Essex, ex from Kent
Contact:

Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by Debz_g » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:31 am

So, I've watched it! :-D

The old format still works and I do think it has potential to work in this format going forward.

I won't lie, it wasn't a perfect episode (and god knows I wanted it to be!). Yes the opening wasn't great, but once the game got going I did get into it.

I loved to see David Rowe's drawings get a CGI revamp, and the inclusion of Ariadne was fantastic. Although I also think she needed to be 'real.' Having Hugo, Cliff and Mark back was the highlight and their performances were as brilliant as ever. Daisy was a tad wooden, especially in the opening scene, but Sylvester and Theodora were okay.

There were a couple of iffy jump cuts going on in Treguard's and Lord Fear's chamber respectively, which looked a bit odd. Plus I was disappointed to see the sound effects were missing. None for magic etc and where was the death bong? Not sure if this was a copyright issue, but no death can be satisfying without a loud bong!! I don't remember seeing the life force at that point either!!

By the end, I didn't want it to finish there and so I did get into it after a shaky start. Like most people I want Knightmare to have a new series and sincerely hope this is the start of something. If it continued to improve as it did toward the end of the episode then this could work. Not sure if it would be on TV as before, but webisodes could be the way forward.

Hopeful to see more going on in the Knightmare world as a result of this. :-)

User avatar
SpectralScorpion
Level 1 Dungeoneer
Level 1 Dungeoneer
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 6:45 pm
Location: Gateshead, Tyne & Wear

Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by SpectralScorpion » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:01 am

For the most part I thought it was really good. As others have said I thought the opening was a bit drawn out but once they started playing the game I really enjoyed it. Great to see they brought back the David Rowe rooms, and also modernised the original life force. :) I thought the advisors were alright, a bit silly but not overbearingly so. And, of course, Hugo and Mark were as brilliant as ever. :D The only complaint I have is that there was some erratic cutting at the end, which gives me the impression they were trying to fit a time constraint. Still, for the most part I rather liked what was produced as we got to see a good-old game of Knightmare, and hopefully the exposure this video will get the show will lead to greater things. :)
SpectralScorpion (n) - One who is forever condemned to eat his words by his own brash arrogance. XD

User avatar
WhiteFloatingSkull
Level 2 Dungeoneer
Level 2 Dungeoneer
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 3:36 pm
Location: Level 2, just above the well...can't miss me!
Contact:

Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by WhiteFloatingSkull » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:23 am

I waited twenty years for this moment, and yeah - whilst it wasn't a perfect rendition, this is something that hasn't been done properly in 20 years, and it was done with probably a little less preparation that perhaps might have gone into the original series during production...for all of 26 minutes, I was watching Knightmare again. ;.;

Words can't express how that felt...and for that I have to thank them!

I swear, if a new season takes place because of this, I will be THE HAPPIEST floatin' skull this side of the greater game - I just hope opposition remember that we still exist! :3

Note: the goblin horn was a little off...ah well, nothings ever perfect! :P

GranitasIsCute
Level 2 Dungeoneer
Level 2 Dungeoneer
Posts: 202
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:52 pm

Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by GranitasIsCute » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:40 am

Overall, I have mixed feelings from this one-off special. It shows that a modern-day Knightmare could work, but at times the tone of the original show seems to be lost and it comes across a bit spoofy at times.

The first thing we notice is the opening titles. They’ve used the Series 6-8 opening, but it’s interesting to spot the omission of the sound effect when the dragon ‘spurts out’ the dungeoneer.
The CGI antechamber is a poor replacement for the real thing and doesn’t look very convincing. I understand they didn’t have time to build one though, so fair enough! If more Knightmare was to be made, I would hope that they would build one.
The episode didn’t get off to the best of starts, to be honest. I didn’t really like the introduction at all and the pantomime-type behaviour made it appear ‘spoofy’ from the offset, which didn’t really encourage us to take the whole thing seriously! Getting the team members to act beyond the capacity of just being a dungeoneer and advisors does not come across well. The whole situation also meant that we didn’t get the classic ‘Enter Stranger’ moment. The REFRESH thing with Treguard was also unnecessary, pantomime and rather stupid. Also – since when did spellcasting need a wand?
Isy Suttie does a fair job at playing Veruca/Daisy though and I wouldn’t mind seeing more of her. The costume is also rather good and I like her backstory.
Hugo Myatt is brilliant as ever, of course. I think Treguard should have explained about taking only 2 objects at any one time and explained the life force (which pops up later in the quest). It would be quite tricky for a first-time viewer to know what was going on! Another thing of note – where is the advisors’ note taking equipment?
The new portal noise is weird.
The CGI rooms in the dungeon don’t look too bad and the card room did its job nicely as a simple starter.
The CGI re-creation of the old Level 1 clue room looked a little odd! I’m not sure about Sylvester the Jester – he seems a little flat as a jester, although I can see where they’re going with trying to have a more ambiguous jester. He does speak in rhymes though, which is a nice touch.
It was strange to see the Level 3 clue room make an appearance as the Level 1 clue room!
It’s good to see the old life force clock back in a similar form, but it seems less prominent than it was in Knightmare’s early years – the heartbeat has been removed and we don’t see it being replenished when food is put in the knapsack.
It’s great to see Clifford Barry as Lissard and Mark Knight as Lord Fear back. Lord Fear’s den looks visually very pleasing – the more realistic of the lot and looks like artwork from David Rowe! I don’t really like the idea of Lord Fear’s ‘new communicator’ though. Lord Fear throwing a fireball is a nice touch though.
I don’t know how the team decided to take the bauble and the key – they didn’t seem to reject the Downer at all! There didn’t seem to be any clue to do so either.
They seemed to react to the spider before it appeared! It’s good to see Ariadne again but it was MUCH more satisfying when they used a real spider.
The situation in the next room was a little confusing – there didn’t really seem to be any need to cast the spell as the exit was clear anyway. It would have made more sense just to make it for the door. It’s a shame that the letters don’t appear on screen when the spell is cast.
Sylvester didn’t seem to get much out of the bargain as he threw the bauble away! Level 1 seemed rather short, but I guess that’s because this is a special and there is limited time.
Theodora Snitch seems like an interesting character – a sort of cross between Elita and Stiletta. I like the concept of the character and I think there’s a lot they could do with her.
Odd to see the Level 1 wellway room become the Level 2 clue room! The first of two Knightmare VR references sneaks into the spyglass scene – it sounds like Lord Fear is talking to Garstang, the orc who hosted the Knightmare VR pilot. The spyglass scene ended quite abruptly – there was no instruction for Stuart to put the spyglass down. The film seems to jump suddenly at 22:53 – a blatant editing error!
I don’t really like the new goblin horn sound effect.
The ‘Slice Me Dice Me’ from Knightmare VR is back! Although I think that Knightmare VR was awful in almost every aspect, I don’t mind the idea of having a floor puzzle like this in the show. I hope I didn’t hear Daisy swear at 21:16! The scroll clue was rather subtle, so well done to the team for figuring out the word.
The team’s downfall was not communicating to Stuart that he had to make a big jump before he made it. It looked like a massive jump to make though! Shame there was no death bong to signal the death and it was nice to hear Treguard’s ‘ooh nasty’ again, even though it took him a while to say it!
It seemed convenient for the team to die at this point and make a suitable length episode. If the team had got further would we have simply been given a longer episode? We see a further room in the credits though (a gargoyle room by the look of it) – maybe we’d have seen that in the quest.
Why did Treguard feel the need to say ‘Dismiss’ after spelling out its letters?
The ending seemed to suggest the possibility of further Knightmare being made. Treguard’s ‘it’s only a game, isn’t it?’ was a suitably atmospheric way to finish off the episode.
Interesting to see the use of the Series 1-3 music for the credits, despite starting with the 6-8 music. Weird that the music was cut short though.

Overall, I think it’s not a bad job at all at paying homage to the original show (I feel more positive about it after a second watching, actually) and it also shows that a modern-day Knightmare could work well if done properly. The show is definitely best with kids though – as adults this team appears more confident and it makes it feel more spoof-like, which affects the tone of the show. Emma seemed to take it the most seriously out of all of them. Also, there are just lots of small things that make it feel less like Knightmare that have been changed – even if is just things like sound effects, scrolls and spells not being on screen etc.
The episode showed that there is great potential for a new Knightmare if they do it right. It was certainly not bad, but not brilliant either.

Reboot
Dungeoneer
Dungeoneer
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:36 am

Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by Reboot » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:23 pm

Granitas Is Cute wrote:Overall, I have mixed feelings from this one-off special. It shows that a modern-day Knightmare could work, but at times the tone of the original show seems to be lost and it comes across a bit spoofy at times.
...
The episode didn’t get off to the best of starts, to be honest. I didn’t really like the introduction at all and the pantomime-type behaviour made it appear ‘spoofy’ from the offset, which didn’t really encourage us to take the whole thing seriously! Getting the team members to act beyond the capacity of just being a dungeoneer and advisors does not come across well. The whole situation also meant that we didn’t get the classic ‘Enter Stranger’ moment. The REFRESH thing with Treguard was also unnecessary, pantomime and rather stupid.
Agreed with all of the above, especially Treguard's Theoden moment.
Granitas Is Cute wrote:It’s good to see the old life force clock back in a similar form, but it seems less prominent than it was in Knightmare’s early years – the heartbeat has been removed and we don’t see it being replenished when food is put in the knapsack.
Also, I can kind of see why they put the head straight on the dungeon background, but it meant there was no green/amber/red indicator to go with it.
Granitas Is Cute wrote:I don’t know how the team decided to take the bauble and the key – they didn’t seem to reject the Downer at all! There didn’t seem to be any clue to do so either.
I wonder about that a touch... they'd been told to take the bauble by Sylvester in the Olgarth room, so it was between the "downer" and the key... and if they got to the lift with the "downer", what price there'd have been no keyhole, and they would have been told to sprinkle it around to make the lift go down?
Granitas Is Cute wrote:The film seems to jump suddenly at 22:53 – a blatant editing error!
There were two jump-cuts - one in the Lord Fear scene, and one with the advisors shortly afterward. The latter was particularly jarring - surely they could have cut to the dungeon view for a moment to cover it?
Granitas Is Cute wrote:Why did Treguard feel the need to say ‘Dismiss’ after spelling out its letters?
Verucca and Emma both said the word after spelling REFRESH and IGNITE earlier, ja? Perhaps it's connected to not having the letters appear on-screen.
Granitas Is Cute wrote:Overall, I think it’s not a bad job at all at paying homage to the original show...
It felt like Red Dwarf: Back to Earth to me - the pieces were there, but mixed up and in with stuff that wasn't a great idea. Hopefully, if there's a series to follow, then as with RDX they'd work on the tone more.
By the powers of truth and light, by the sword of Justice bright: Make and mend, shift and blend, until Knightmare once more stands aright!

User avatar
HobGoblin
Staff
Staff
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:20 pm

Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by HobGoblin » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:47 pm

Ok, this was obviously a slightly ramshackle production with very little development time so I don’t want to be too hard on it. I won’t mention the dodgy editing, clumsy room transitions, disappointing use of the lifeforce animation (not even during the death?!) or occasional suspect graphic. I certainly won’t be pretentious enough to talk about Ariadne getting lost in the uncanny valley.

I agree with others here that the tone was just a bit too knowing and I didn’t really like the team (but then there were always teams which rubbed you up the wrong way) - did they have to make them too cool for pads and pencils? Treguard was a little subdued – I don’t know if Hugo was in character as having just woken up after a two decade sleep or what…?

I do have to mention the opening 5 minutes which were pretty awful and totally unnecessary – why not just have Treguard say “You took your time, thought you’d gone for good…blah blah…enter stranger” and we’re straight into the action. I was having what I believe Star Wars fans call a Phantom Menace moment at this point!

However….

I thought that generally the dungeon looked good (pleased to see Dave Rowe credited with the graphic design) and it was quite a thrill seeing some old rooms. I thought the new characters served their purpose well. Although this particular quest was a bit talky for my taste and I would have preferred some more navigational challenges, it was still watchable because the underlying format is so great. I can complain about little details – the goblin and the horn sound effect, the lack of wall monster – but fundamentally it was still Knightmare.

If this was being presented as series 9, episode 1 then I’d be very disappointed. But it isn’t – it’s a curio, a dvd extra type of production and on those terms I quite enjoyed it. It’s a demo which shows potential.

Here’s hoping it leads to bigger and better things.

P.S. Isy’s F bomb – were they just unable to edit this out? Can’t think why this would be intentional unless they were trying to create a YouTube comment talking point…
Extreme warning team, a Hobgoblin in the level!

User avatar
shadow6162
Knight
Knight
Posts: 671
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 10:05 am
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
Contact:

Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by shadow6162 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:03 pm

Ooh ooh ooh! I have a question!!! Am I allowed to do a commentary of this episode? Because I REEEEEEEEEEEEALLY wanna do one!!! :D (I sound like some little kid wanting to be chosen to go on stage in a pantomime XDDD)
I am merely a young girl's shadow...nothing more...nothing less...

Image

fluttermoth
Level 1 Dungeoneer
Level 1 Dungeoneer
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by fluttermoth » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:06 pm

Here's my thoughts, for what they're worth, after the first watch.

I really enjoyed it!

The biggest downfall was it did seem slightly awkward. I don't think Treguard knows quite how to handle adults!

I'm not sure it can come back on a large scale; Knbightmare is not Doctor Who, and no one but Hugo should ever be Treguard in 'real' onscreen Knightmare, IMHO (much as I love a lot of the alternate Treguards), and I'm not sure it can/should be done with a new team; with the best will in the world, I can't see either Tim or Hugo wanting to do a two or three year run, but I think there's the potential there for a 'swansong' series.

The graphics looked great, IMO; just old school enough to be recognisably 'Knightmare', but not too flash/WoW/Rift-y.

tarasis
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:56 pm

Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by tarasis » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:07 pm

I really rather enjoyed the episode. Veruca/Daisy's intro was a little off but once Treguard appeared it was fine. It felt nice to spend 26 minutes watching something I used to watch, and I'd gladly watch more if they made it. Like Fluttermoth says a swan song series :)

The F bomb was a surprise and it is quite well hidden in the mix, I actually expected Treguard to chide her for it.

Treguard
Level 1 Dungeoneer
Level 1 Dungeoneer
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 10:53 pm
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by Treguard » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:43 pm

For me:-

Good points:

It was great to see Hugo Myatt, Mark Knight and Cliff Barry back in their roles after what seems and feels like an age. I just felt that Isy's performance was a bit on the wooden side (and I didn't expect her to say "what the fuck is it (or was that)??"

Although Ashen made a great dungeoneer, I didn't click with the team, and it came across a bit too comical for me.

The best looking environment was probably Lord Fear's mount fear room. Unfortunately the same can't be said for the other rooms which tbh looked extremely basic (even rooms from series 8 knightmare looked better) and had mismatched textures. This was mostly apparent in Treguard's ante-chamber where the brick walls didn't match/line up, and a flat bitmap was used for the fireplace. After looking at it twice, it could have been intentional to make the rooms look a bit old school/naff. Don't even get me started on those MS paint cobwebs

I felt things did improve towards the end, but the episode felt like it was a bit too rushed (evidenced by a couple of jump cuts (one being where Lord Fear talked about Ashen's weapon which them abrtuply cut (I'm guessing they must've had a good laugh at that line), and tbh I think had they asked the KM community for help, that I dare say people would've jumped at the chance to help and make it look better.

I hope this opens up new avenues for Knightmare, but don't feel that the opportunity that was given was used to it's fullest.
OoooOooOoohhhhh Nasty

User avatar
Mystara
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 1676
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:53 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by Mystara » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:35 pm

For the record, Isy Suttie does not swear in the episode.
Alan Boyd
Website: http://www.twicetwice.co.uk/

User avatar
shadow6162
Knight
Knight
Posts: 671
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 10:05 am
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
Contact:

Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by shadow6162 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:50 pm

Mystara wrote:For the record, Isy Suttie does not swear in the episode.
She didn't? Then who did? I don't think Emma did, so was it someone on the crew? ???
I am merely a young girl's shadow...nothing more...nothing less...

Image

Post Reply