End of seasons

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JoeGrocottJames
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End of seasons

Post by JoeGrocottJames » Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:25 pm

I noticed that in 'Who wants to be a Millionaire?' (which has the same situation in that the contestants can be in the hotseat for any length of time and there is only a finite length of time available in a series), the production team always managed to end the series when a contestant ends his time in the hotseat anyway. Why could this not be managed in Knightmare? (In series 1, did the Folly versus Cedric scene actually change anything? I wonder if this was a 'filler', so if the last team did get past the Wall of Jericho, maybe that scene would be left out? Because there would probably not have been time for that quest to be completed if they had the horn and the Folly versus Cedric scene was left in). As for series 7 (when the end of the quest coincided with the end of the season as well), that was needed for plot reasons - the Sly/Romanha scene was a bit of a filler, and the 'return' sequence was longer than with Julie's team winning - again, probably to fill time.

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Re: End of seasons

Post by DavidNewton » Sat Mar 22, 2003 7:48 pm

You've answered your own question, really - Millionaire can be edited down so that the end always coincides with the end of the series. With Knightmare it's more awkward - they would probably have introduced a "filler" in Series 8 as well had it not been so short.
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Re: End of seasons

Post by JoeGrocottJames » Sat Mar 22, 2003 8:16 pm

But there may be pauses that can be edited here and there (it says that the first team of series 8 took over half an hour to decide what objects to take in the clue room). Also, does everyone think I am right about the Folly versus Cedric scene being a filler?

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Re: End of seasons

Post by Jericho6 » Sat Mar 22, 2003 8:21 pm

One assumes that they got more proficient at bringing a series to an end as they went along - the first four seasons or so didn't really end on a satisfactory note so they did something about it (as I said in another topic, the wall of Jericho scenario seemed a bit contrived, one assumes that the team died due simply to low life force, but the way it was presented it seems that they literally died of not having the horn).

It probably wasn't fair to send teams in knowing full well that they wouldn't have time to win - who knows, maybe the teams that ended seasons two, three and four could have gone on to win? They should have at least done a season 8-style Short Cut on them.

When I watched Knightmare as a child, my overriding memory was that, typically, the last team on the series won, and all the rest didn't. I used to think that they re-ordered the teams so that if there were any winners, they'd put them on at the end of the season. Now, having watched it again, I don't think it's true, but the end at least of seasons 6 and 7 were fixed I think.
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DavidNewton
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Re: End of seasons

Post by DavidNewton » Sat Mar 22, 2003 9:35 pm

I think, if given the time, the last team on Series 4 would definitely have won.
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Re: End of seasons

Post by Malefact » Sat Mar 22, 2003 9:55 pm

They certainly deserved to.

Another reason why a DVD release would be fantastic is because all the deleted footage could be included (either in a separate programme, or re-inserted into the existing ones). The Red Dwarf DVD has that feature.
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Re: End of seasons

Post by PunmiesterWhiteley » Sun Mar 23, 2003 11:52 am

Sending a team out when they had no chance what so ever of succeeding was pointless.  

They were better off thowing a few more traps at Dunstan and co rather than having a new team.
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Re: End of seasons

Post by Steve » Mon Mar 24, 2003 4:46 pm

ooh ooh OHH! i know about this, i know how it was all done.

I e-mailed Tim Child about it a few weeks back cus i've been wondering about this since i watched knightmare as a kid and he told me how it all worked(hes such a helpful guy)
Here's his response:

"Stephen I will answer this one but I can't find time to answer all the queries which come from Knightfans.

All teams which entered the games began with winning team status. If they failed at key points in their quest, they became losing teams. A losing team was not allowed to win - i.e. perform and succeed in the final core task, but a losing team was not necessarily killed off straight away. Some survived longer for entertainment value, and some because their lack of a particular object or spell would not be apparent until they reached the moment of when they needed to use it.

Winding up a series presented special problems. We could not roll a quest across from series to series because the nature of the dungeon and its cast was always revised.  When approaching the end of  a series with a 'losing' team in Quest, it was relatively easy. You just prolonged their adventure until it became convenient to kill them off. The problem came when the final team was still in 'winning status'. We resolved this in  a variety of ways - sometimes providing short cuts; sometimes allowing them to succeed in a sub-task, rather than defeat the dungeon. None of these was really satisfying - but often it was the best I could do, in the cause of maintaining fair play.
There was only one incident when I curtailed a team for any other reason - and that was when one dungeoneer became so homesick he was physically ill. I can't reveal which one or which series, and I don't think you would be able to spot it.If this incident seems odd - remember that we never knew when a Quest was going to end, so there was always another team waiting in back up. This meant that some of the players  had been away from home and staying in hotels for up to seven days. Some were only 11, and many had never been away from home before.

best

TC"

Hope this helps
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Jericho6
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Re: End of seasons

Post by Jericho6 » Mon Mar 24, 2003 8:59 pm

That's interesting - although of all the seasons that I can think of, only season one  (and possibly season five, I can't remember but I don't think so) actually ended with someone losing.

As an aside, Tim didn't mention whether the team involved in the "incident" he discussed actually finished a season, I assume it could have been any losing/short-cutting team in the show's entire run.
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Re: End of seasons

Post by Malefact » Mon Mar 24, 2003 11:15 pm

Fascinating stuff! The "assumed winning until they cock it up" principal is very interesting (and quite sensible in my opinion).

I can certainly understand the home-sickness. I remember what it was like going to university for the first time - that was the first time I'd stayed away from my family. I was 19 and it still cut a bit.

Anyway, Tim's perfectly right not to say which team got curtailed and I don't think we should start guessing.

Btw, I would imagine that it would be extremely difficult to pace a live series to finish at the correct time when a more complicated series ending sub-plot is involved. I predict an earlier series-style ending.
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Re: End of seasons

Post by GrimaldineGrimwold » Tue Mar 25, 2003 2:54 am

Btw, I would imagine that it would be extremely difficult to pace a live series to finish at the correct time when a more complicated series ending sub-plot is involved. I predict an earlier series-style ending.
I agree. With it being live there'll probably be quite enough for the production team to think about and rip their hair out over without adding more. I also hope it's the case that they stick with an early-series style finale.

I'm glad to see that so many people are being converted to the cause of the old series endings. It must be like water torture: since I've ranted on and on about how good they are for so long on so many occasions, people are eventually forced to agree.

Now I just need similarly to convince people on other issues, and especially other inclusions for the new KM. Hmmm...

Clifford Norgate as Hordriss. Clifford Norgate as Hordriss. Clifford Norgate as Hordriss. Clifford Norgate as Hordriss. Clifford Norgate as Hordriss.  Clifford Norgate as Hordriss. Clifford Norgate as Hordriss. Clifford Norgate as Hordriss. Clifford Norgate as Hordriss. Clifford Norgate as Hordriss.  

You get the picture. ;)
Last edited by GrimaldineGrimwold on Tue Mar 25, 2003 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: End of seasons

Post by Steve » Tue Apr 01, 2003 2:25 pm

That's interesting - although of all the seasons that I can think of, only season one  (and possibly season five, I can't remember but I don't think so) actually ended with someone losing.
The way i interpret it, we saw the ending team get pulled from the dungeon before getting the chance to finish wheras in reality they have already lost at a key point in a previous dungeon

As i see it, it was a great way to work it
Steve

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Re: End of seasons

Post by beamrider2600 » Tue Apr 01, 2003 2:38 pm

Wasn't it sad that the series ended after series 8. At the end, the players were simply pushed out of the way and they only ever got 8 minutes of air-time. Then it was over forever :-[
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Re: End of seasons

Post by Steve » Wed Apr 02, 2003 4:05 pm

AH! but it WILL return!
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Re: End of seasons

Post by NouCamp » Sat Jun 14, 2003 11:31 am

I think end of seasons were fantastic, if the dungeoneer was only midway through the dungeon, such as series 3, for instance, and that bloody good ending with the trombone, and series 5, with the freezing objective.  However, for those who were nearly there, they should have shortened the number of rooms down, or provided appropriate short-cuts for retriving objects.  

Series 8. however, was too disapointing for an end to a great programme, it should have been more scraier, like for instance, an outside baddie trying to rule the dungeons, and he was so powerful, that Lord Fear and Treaguard had to work together for once to destroy him.

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